38 deck--intermittent playback

ithacadude

New member
I've got a newly acquired 38 deck that I'm bringing back to life--relubed tensioners, new cap. belt and pinch roller. all seems well. recorded and played back all 8 tracks, then noticed that track 2 sometimes drops out on playback. was intermittent for a few minutes, now seems gone. I've cleaned and cleaned the heads with 99.9% alcohol, they look "as new"--demagnetized, and pulled, de-ox-id, reseated all the channel cards. using brand new ATR tape. so, channel two seems gone from the sync head, but sometimes comes back off the repro head. as all of this was developing, there were short times where sound was coming from track two but the meter was dead--then it would come to life. other times the meter and sound came and went together. also times where #2 was out with both sync AND repro head. last check no #2 from either head. having trouble figuring out the troubleshooting from this point--any thoughts from reelheads out there??
 
Check the relays on the no.2 channel card. These are the components which switch the output signal between sync and repro and they have a reputation for sticking.
 
I've located three relays on the schematic--k101, k102, 103. if these can stick, is there a way to free/lube them? I will also swap cards to troubleshoot. however, i can't find a description of which way the cards are arranged. are they 1-8 from front of the machine to the back?
 
The relay is an 8 dollar part. Just put in a new one and be done with it. Those original relays were never really meant to be serviced, though you could try squirting in a bit of deox-it inside the case,(which will no doubt crack on you when you try to open it!) :p

Cheers! :)
 
sounds good! still wondering how the cards are arranged? is it safe to operate the deck with a card removed?

When laying the deck on it's back with the bottom open and facing you, the second channel will be 2nd card from the top. Page 83 of the owner's/service manual will document this. I assume because you're even asking this question, you don't own a manual...hint; buy one! :cool:

The deck can be powered up with a card removed but it's best to have the power off when removing or re-inserting the cards. I can't think of one good reason to have the power on at this point.

The relay is part number 5290008900 and is descibed as being a 24volt G2V-2 type. Use this part number when ordering a replacement from TEAC parts.

Cheers! :)
 
thank you! i do have the manual, just couldn't locate the info. more developments--I swapped cards 2 and 3--and still having issues with track 2. I'm getting playback with repro head, but nothing on the meter. interesting! no playback with sync head (no meter, of course). track 3 working fine (now with suspect card from track 2). any clues?
 
thank you! i do have the manual, just couldn't locate the info. more developments--I swapped cards 2 and 3--and still having issues with track 2. I'm getting playback with repro head, but nothing on the meter. interesting! no playback with sync head (no meter, of course). track 3 working fine (now with suspect card from track 2). any clues?

That could point to the main buss board that the 8 channel cards connect to or more likely one of the connector junction points on that board...and there are several to check for cold solder and or oxidized connections which a shot of deox-it might be able to remedy or if more corroded, might need a product like Caig's Pro-Gold in paste form to resurface the offending metal contact point.

Cheers! :)
 
I had a very similar intermitent problem on my 38, but on Channel 8. Same as you, I could swap cards but same issue regardless of the swap. When the unit was warmed up well, Channel 8 would generally work fine. Ended up being cold solder joints on the multi-pin connectors at the mother board that needed to be re-soldered. I'm no tech but just offering up a thought from my experience. Tom Wagner in Lawrence, KS did excellent tech work for me to rectify the issue.
 
^^^^ Yeah, what Ghost said. Try deoxit on the female pin connectors on the underside of the motherboard first. I always let them dry out some before powering back on. If that doesn't help, then a cold joint would be the next suspect, but I'm not sure how resoldering the connectors is done. Best wishes, and hopefully it's a de-oxit job.
 
well, I cleaned all the connections on the bottom of the motherboard, and brought the VU meter on #2 back to life, but still no signal from the sync head.
also now channel 4 lost signal from repro head! anyone know a good place for service in the finger lakes (upstate NY) region? I've heard of New Jersey Factory Service...
 
^^^^ Yeah, what Ghost said. Try deoxit on the female pin connectors on the underside of the motherboard first. I always let them dry out some before powering back on. If that doesn't help, then a cold joint would be the next suspect, but I'm not sure how resoldering the connectors is done. Best wishes, and hopefully it's a de-oxit job.

Ya, I think the can has a minimum of two minutes or something like that.
 
Don't give up yet...it can be frustrating but stay with it. Let us know what cards you pulled...just card #2, all the cards, or what. Regarding channel #4, did you pull that card and are now having the problem? The repro and sync heads are the same, lots of folks actually don't use the repro mode alot and just keep in sync mode, so maybe not a big deal? Make sure the connectors are dried out after the deoxit application...I use a hair dryer set on low and aim it into the sockets. When re-seating the cards, do it gently and don't push them back in with force. Try reseating/swaping cards again. Stay at it and I wish you well.
 
Resolved Similar Issue on a 34

I've had what appears to be a similar issue to yours on a 34. It appears I have remedied the situation merely by testing out the connections with a mutimeter (see thread here: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=3287428#post3287428)

so I would check out the 'motherboard' of the channel boards - you have to take out the whole channel board assembly and disconnect all the plastic wire connections (what does one call these type of wire connectors?) but they are color coded somewhat so they're not difficult to get back right. look where the wires go from the repro head on to the motherboard and clean with deoxit and/or isopropyl and toothbrush and test all this for connectivity where its coming in from the repro head to where it leads into the channel board. Don't put it all back together until you get connectivity where you think you should. You can measure connectivity on the good channels to see which ones should be getting connectivity but are not on the bad ones. I think I disassembled and reassemble this whole bit twice before I had it working. its a little awkward, but you can also test a bit for connectivity while the channel boards are all out before you disassemble that whole lower channel board chassis area. (hope you know all the parts I'm talking about here, sorry if I don't have all the proper names).

I didn't have to resolder anything on mine, but I don't know if the short will return sometime, maybe someone with more experience with intermittent bad solder joints can share their experience. I'd be interested what the best protocol for replacing dead solder joints is, is it best to clean it all out and replace it with new solder? or can you merely reheat the joint?

best luck,
LUNE
 
Rectifying a cold solder joint or broken joint is generally just a matter of reheating the joint to melt the solder and its a good idea to add just a touch of new solder.

For working on these kinds of joints you want to have an iron with a fairly small tip and you need to keep it clean as you work. If it is dirty it will hamper the ability of the heat to transfer to the joint you are working on and you end up heating the whole area waiting for the joint to reach the melting point. You want to be able to work pretty quickly or you may damage other bits. I also suggest you leave the channel card plugged in as it will keep the pins lined up and help to disperse heat. Might be wrong on that idea see what others say. Anyway, I use a wet piece of t-shirt material to wipe the tip of the iron, and I keep a small utility knife handy to scrape any stubborn coke off that builds up on the tip and won't wipe off.
 
say Lune, I'm confused on your method of checking continuity--I am thinking it might make sense to pull the channel cards and leave the connections intact on the other side of the motherboard. then check continuity between the tape heads and the pins that the cards plug into. if i pull all the connections to the motherboard, how can I check for cold solder joints there? (i'm way out of my league here!!)

finally, if I were to give up--New Jersey Factory Service will repair AND align the deck for $150-200. my brother in law is a pro sound engineer and can do a full alignment, but we can't locate a test tape and I really hate to buy one. It would be satisfying to fix it myself, though...
 
maybe you could just check from the tape heads, but if you have to clean them well or resolder, I guess it'd be pretty hard to do it all attached up like that. when I was checking mine, I wanted to be able to check each connection individually to see exactly which was not connecting - if you open that all up, you can check each one individually. if i remember right, there were something like 4 solder joints between the top of the motherboard (where the cables came from the tape head) to the underside (where the cables lead to the channel boards) these are all in a very small area on the board, but I had to check them all individually before they worked. and if you havn't cleaned them all up good with a toothbrush and deoxit, you'll want to do that - I don't know that you could get away with just spraying some deoxit on it. I cleaned mine with isopropyl and a toothbrush - it was pretty dirty though.

I've included some pictures from when I did this that might help. it seems really intimidating at first to take it all apart this much, but these machines seem made to be taken apart - lots of times I've tried in vain to unscrew something that was just too tight and would strip my screwdriver before it could come loose, just to find that I didn't need to unscrew that one and it was perhaps looked in on purpose - the ones you want to take out are usually a bit easier...:o - one thing I remember is that there is one bit that you might think you have to unscrew, but it actually slides back to release the lower portion (more on this below w/ picture). all the plastic connections are color coded so it would be difficult to put it back together wrong - but do take a good look at it before you start unplugging things and take a picture beforehand if you want to be safe.

Tascam 38 where to unscrew.jpg
so, the white arrows show you where you need to unscrew. you will need to detach that black plate where all the rca ins & outs go - so that screw with the white arrow there, and the blue arrow, I think you can get away with just unscrewing one side because the other side will slip off. you do NOT need to unscrew the red arrow screw, this is where you slide it into place, so it just needs to be pushed back so it can slide out. (this was the screw I couldn't get unscrewed then realized I didn't need to...) however at this point, on my machine I had to slide this little metal piece forward with a screwdriver with a moderate force so that it could keep from clasping and slip through the hole that it was meant to slip from (great terminology here!:o )

you've got to take all those plastic connections off at the motherboard - they are connected both to that black panel and to the rest of unit etc. again, it seems intimidating, but its all color coded and after you do it once, you wonder what your fuss was about. take a picture of it all connected to be safe.

here are some pictures of my 34 with bottom disassembled:
Tascam 34 fixing checking motherboard.jpg
Tascam 34 fixing checking motherboard2.jpg

I hope this helps!
I had a fun time taking mine apart after all was said & done (and fixed!)
Its nice to get to know these machines a little on the inside...
 
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