$300 in gear wasted?

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SevenSamurai

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I just upgraded from a free Fostex mic, to a Rodes NT1 and an Art Tube MP.

I totally dolled up a bathroom closet shelf (that's right, I'm a *real* HOME recording musician type, :-) -- by including pillows & towels so that there are no reflections, and I recorded at mere inches away from the mic.

Yet, when I compared to my old vox recordings, I couldn't hear a big difference. The Rodes NT1 was a little crisper on the highs, and the edges were more rounded off through the Art -- but A FREE FOSTEX MIC verses the RODES NT1 & ART TUBE MP???

What am I doing wrong? My Art settings are at 10:00 Input and Maxed on Output. My vocals aren't the "fullest", and I guess you could say I give a weak delivery, but I've been in a studio before and recorded there and know I can get my vocals into a mix better than I am. Any suggestions?

~Dakota Goldsworth
PS: I'd LOVE to hear EVERY step some of you take to get your vocals into your recordings if anyone's up for it.
 
Was the fostex a condensor? I noticed a big difference in the Rode versus a Shure SM58,

When I say big difference...the SM58 sounded good... but the Rode had a "sparkle" to it.

$300.00 is big chunk of change for a little sparkle, but it is a noticable improvement!

Dom Franco
 
Hey,

I have the same setup and had the same 1st reaction... Until... My friend(who does all the singing) tried "singing" to the mic rather the the belting out he used to do to get a decent sound with the 57. Also, I belive the best way to get the sound you want is to increase the input gain till you get the sound you want(the higher the input the more "tube" sound you get) then adjust the output stage to satisfy your recording level.
We heard things we never did with the NT1 in his singing once I tried this method. Also this Mic made my acoustic guitar sound Amazing, compared to the 57. Just Play with it. I thought it was over-rated at first too.

later.
 
The Fostex mic was a turd, not a condensor. :-)

Nah, it was just a little "M301 Unidirectional Fostex Moving Coil imp.600," thingy. I remember spending $400 on that multitracker, and it mostly sounded like crap, and that mic sure didn't help.

Thus my fears when I upgraded to a mic-pre and the Rodes, and didn't hear an amazing increase in quality.

~Dakota Goldsworth
 
Bassman,

::PHEW:: Thanks for the reassurance. INPUT gives the Tube sound? Dang, I got my wires crossed there. Okay, tha settles one problem.

My other is that I'm using a tiny cardboard circle with pantyhose over it as a pop-filter. I can't currently get right up on the mic, but at least I now know there's another possible suspect to my not taking as big of a step foward as I thought I should've.

Thanks guys.

~Dakota Goldsworth
 
Try recording without the pop filter, but with the NT1's diaphragm at an angle to the singer's mouth so that it avoids catching all the wind from a explosive 'P' or 'B'. Worth a shot anyway.
 
This may seem like a stupid question.. but someone else on this board had this problem before... Your using the 1/4" output from the art right? One guy came on here, used the art with the xlr out into his 4-tracks xlr input / preamp (with it's gain fairly high) and complained that the preamp quality wasn't any higher...
 
Hi
SevenSamurai

Please dont try singing into this mic without a Popper Stopper........condensors dont like moisture is is the fastest way to stuff it ....also keap those pink crystals blue...ie put them in the oven.

Prop the Popper 1 inch off the Rode and stick your lips right up to it...dead on to the Diaphram there wont be any pops and there wont be any silibance

see ya Tony
 
Hi Seven. I'm using an NT-1 and ART tube pre as well. The ART doesn't make a huge difference, but the difference it makes is *tasty*.

I recorded a series of takes with different settings on the ART to see what I liked. For the Rode, input at 2:00, ouput at 4:30 tickled my fancy. For the AKG C-1000 I'm using, I preferred input at 3:45, output at 5:00. But last night I added a compressor to the signal chain, and had to adjust the pre settings.

I don't use a popper stopper, because I work stereo mics up close, and sing between them.
 
You should definitely hear a differnece unless your recording medium is not capable of picking it up. What are you using for recording. A cassette deck that runs at normal speed maybe. This will have a tough time deciphering the difference because it has a minimum frequency span. If it's digital, then something is wrong.
 
I use the Art Tube MP's 1/4" Output.

Well, I use a cardboard circle with pantyhose.... will that still keep out the moisture?

As for what I'm recording into -- just pretty much the computer's Input after the Art Tube. Unfortunately, my Output cord from the MP to the computer is an auxiliary cord. Could that be making any difference? I know it's not gold, but it doesn't effect the quality level of other instruments that I can tell.

~Dakota Goldsworth
 
SevenSamurai,

What kind of computer soundcard do you have? If you're recording on a generic Soundblaster type card, the difference will be even less noticeable.

Also a better comparison would have been to record both mics at the same time and compare differences. This way, each mic was being recorded in the exact same conditions. Your comparison would be more scientific. Just put up both mics on stands right next to each other. Pan one on one side and pan the other on the other side.

Rev E
 
Hay,
I would like to help you but first i have a few questions.
What are you monitoring with?
Are you knew to recording?
Have you experimented with other micing positions?

The differance should be noticeable, i'm guessing that you either; monitoring through PC speakers/headphones, You are still quite knew to recording and your ears arn't trained as well as many others, or you have just found a bad mic position.

If any of the above sound true and you still hear a differance, then the differance is probobly worth the $300.

Good Luck! Hope i have helped you :)
omnipotent :D
 
Hi SevenSamuri, Did you ever hear that song from Bad Co."Can't get Enough of your love"?
Paul Rodgers recorded the vocals for that song while standing on an outside balcony,the guitar solo was recorded in front a fire in the living room fireplace.He even recorded the vocals for one song on that album in an open field.Try different rooms, move around the house and be patient my friend.
 
<< What are you monitoring with?
Are you knew to recording?
Have you experimented with other micing positions? >>

::gulp:: Preparing for the embarassment...

I have a Sound Blaster Live soundcard, and I use a pair of Cambridge speakers w/subwoofer. Not the most impressive setup by pro-recording standards, but can it really junk this drastic an upgrade in mics?

I've been recording for a good amount of time, but I'll be flat-out honest that I've used mostly junk in the past. I've gone from open air recording drum machine, keyboard and guitar with two cheap dynamic mics in my garage to recording direct to a cheap multitracker. Now I'm going direct through pre-amps and such into the computer, and hoping to hear some drastic differences.

~Dakota Goldsworth
 
T.J.Hooker,

Yeah, placement experimentation is definately on my list of things to do -- but our apartment is TIIIIIIINY. I'm not too keen on singing outside for the neighbors either. :-)

I'm thinking of getting those foam panels or something, maybe a blanket to "booth" me and the mic in. Unfortunately, I'd have to bring my entire computer with me if I wanted to record vocals elsewhere. It'd be a last ditch option, but a possibilty.

~Dakota Goldsworth
 
That is probobly why then....

I like the idea of deadening everything with blankets.
What you should try though, is recording a vocal track with your old mic. Recording quite a few takes with your new setup (each time with the mic at a differant hight, distance and angle(write down how you did it each time)). Burn it onto a CD and play it on various sets of speakers.

See if your opinion changes, and decide how you get the sound you like(mic placement). :)

Cheers! :)
omnipotent :D

[This message has been edited by omnipotent (edited 05-12-2000).]
 
If you are recording through a cheap sound card, no matter how great a mic is, the sound card is only so capable of picking up the frequencies that the mic sends. If you had a digitial spdif input, then you ccould capture the output of a digital mic pre. MIC- Pre- computer dig in, and record. That is the setup that will let your hear the difference in mics.
 
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