3 vs 880 rackmount units V.S. 3 adat units?

[Blue Bear Sound]

hey bruce when i made the studio comment i meant YOUR studio. your CHEAP. a setup like that here in california would run $50-$125 an hour.

It's priced comparably to other commercial project studios in the area.... Ottawa has nowhere near the market for studios that LA does........ There is only one major in town left and they're hurting big time right now.........

It's a great deal for Americans to come to Canada to record I think - - rates are cheaper and with the exchange now ast more than half, you guys come away laughing!

 

[atomictoyz]

I just have some simple questions if you don't mind.

If the Mackie is $1999.99, and 3 Rolands are $1599.99 would it makes sense to save for the Mackie? Are the errors bit errors, are they audible in the final product?
How accurate or how reliable are sync'ng 3 hardrives going to be and does this triple the error rate? Why is Roland discontinuing the rackmount VS?
My opinion is that ADAT is better suited for commercial, since the customer walks away with the original tapes, he can go elsewhere if needed. How does the VS handle a multiple customer situation? ADATS are proven reliable, and Im sure the day will come when ADATs will be antiquated, but not anytime soon when there is such a huge user base. The Roland on the other hand isn't as friendly for the user and is a little too specialized for most people. I know everyone defends their own personal equipment and often specs are thrown about as spent shells in a gunfight, but you must realize everyone is different, different budgets, different undestanding on whats important in a device. The specs are typically a design target rather than reality so save your bullets. It would be nice if all our equipment performed like the sales pitch, Im sure even Bruce has a complaint or two about his set up. When I bought my MD8, I had a list of what was available in my price range, listed the pro's and cons and worked it out. If I could have bought something better I would have, Id certainly go for SSL or API with a pair of 2" 24 tracks, but yeah....reality sets in.
So, lets have a competition, get some rules like take recorder out of box, hook up wires, record on all 24 tracks, no duplicates of tracks, mix and burn reference cd. This thread started out like a contest right so, you guys put your equipment to the test, with independent judges and clock watchers.

Ready?

Peace,
Dennis

 

[czar of bizarre]

im soaking all this in like a sponge. with the mackie that is ONE unit. instead of 3 units. so now i have all these wires and maybe sync issues (things happen). however if one machine blows to dust i still have two. in the mackies case if it blows im finished. as far as adats i WONT be doing ANY commercial stuff. i wont open my doors to the public. as far as the roland i am familiar with the 880 setup because i have a vs880ex. so navigation is not a problem. as far as the mackie i would be using a 24 channel mackie mixer so i dont see why the mackie mixer would have issues with the hard disk.


@Bruce those rates are good. what problems do the big boys have in Ottawa? someone running em out?


thanks guys



czar

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Bruce those rates are good. what problems do the big boys have in Ottawa? someone running em out?

The one and only big boy is not getting enough big-ticket business.......

I guess technically, the little guys (like me!), are having an impact.........

They even sent me a discount coupon! (Mind you, I was a former customer, I don't think they realize I'm part of their competition now!)

 

[czar of bizarre]

what type of coupon? was it for reduced rates? so the BIG GUY isnt getting the BIG $$$$$ man.....your a STUDIO KILLER!

lol



czar

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

what type of coupon? was it for reduced rates? so the BIG GUY isnt getting the BIG $$$$$ man.....your a STUDIO KILLER!

Aw shucks... quit it... your embarrassing me!!!

Yeah the coupon was for reduced rates........

Bruce

 

[atomictoyz]

I Don't think Bruces situation is unusual, there are alot of big studios that forced" themselves" out of the market. I think ADAT killed a certain portion of the market, it brought a 24 track studio within the reach of whats most demos would cost in a analog 24 track facility. The typical demo used to cost around three grand, plus another fee for mastering. If you wanted cassette or phonograph duplication your well into the ten thousand dollar mark. I saw the largest impact on 16 track project studios where they had spent alot of money on equipment that was worth 1/4th of what they paid a year prior, and with their budgets already being pushed to the limit. One local facility Ive been to called Lawson Studios had at one time quite a few interior facilities for different budgets, it wasn't unusual to see a teenage thrash metal band doing a 16 track demo down the hall where some nationally know act was using one a of the 24 track Otari set-ups. You would see guys from these big rock bands walking the hallways, tripping over cable runs taped to floor from one area to another. The Bad Animals portion of Lawson was definitely the high point of that facility, it was absolutely beautiful. I think they've remodeled BA into a post production digital workstation and mastering facility.
I think its great that people like Bruce have invested in making recording available to nearly anyone, You would be surprised to know how many people have used ADAT, something close to 200,000 users world wide I think.

Anyhow if you blow a VS you lose your data, if an ADAT blows you don't lose your data, and they are user maintainable to an extent. An ADAT can be taken to a larger number of repair shops. I think the reliability of ADAT is superior and its alot easier to debug problems. One thing I can't stand with the Akai, Rolands and Korgs is the limited of tracks recorded at the same time and the limited number of playback tracks at 24 bit. Why would you spend money on a 16 track digital workstation that claims 24 recording on one hand but on the other only offers 8 tracks of playback at that bit depth. (IM sure if that applies to the Roland stuff because its hard to get that info, but the Korgs and the Akais both reduce the playback tracks as you increase in bit depth. I read the VS-2480 users manual and Id definitely stick with ADAT for 24 track recording. But hey its only my personal opinion, Im weary of hardisk recording myself just because the media is one of the most unreliable things out there, how many hardrives have been crashed in comparison to how many bad ADAT tapes are out there. Go over to vsplanet and see if how many problems are there with the Rolands then find some Alesis users and see what problems they have then weigh the 2 different findings. Every system will have its fair share of problems, but its the pros and cons that should ultimately finalize your descision.

Peace,
Dennis

 

[sjoko2]

I've only read over the posts pretty quickly, so excuse me if I screw this up.

The first thing I would do is forget about the Rolands mentioned. If you do a side-by-side comparison with one of those and a 20 bit ADAT you'd immediately hear the reasons why.

Second, there are pre's and against's to every method of recording. I have recorded most of my life onto 2" analogue. This can break, stretch, corrode, oxydise and fuck-up in many more ways.
I have also recorded on ADAT and while the 16 bit versions sucked, the 20 bit ones sound good - period. I've had tapes stretch beyond the ability of the machines to correct it, I've had the mechanics of cassettes screw up ........... Like it says in the manual - you need to back-up your stuff, If you don't heed that warning say to yourself "I want trouble" and be happy.
I've also recorded on disk, and disks do fuck-up. Actually, I've had more problems with disks then I've ever had with any other media. But, disks are fast and convenient, so I BACK THINGS UP.

However, like always, you get what you pay for. Buy a Radar and you're unlikely to have a lot of breakdowns.

If you have an analogue Mackie board and are looking to get the best cost / quality recording system, I think you'd be hard pressed to get something to sound as good as the ADATs will, they will sound better than a Mackie 9624 harddisk system.