3 vs 880 rackmount units V.S. 3 adat units?

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czar of bizarre

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im looking to expand the studio and i already have a vs880ex. now i want to run a 24 channel mackie through 3 adats or 3 vs880 rackmount units. the rack mount units record to hard disc and im familiar with the way it operates. the rackmounts are in 20 or 24 bit format im not sure. the price of each unit is somewhere around $400 bucks because they are being discontinued. now how does that compare to adats being 16-24 bit priced t $799-1299 depending on unit and learning curve (i never recorded on adats)?


is this a good idea? if the roland rig up is good i may just try to get 4 or 5 and chain em.




czar
 
For one thing ADATs are 20-bit (or 16 for the older units)....

For another, I guarantee the converters on the ADATs are far superior to the Roland stuff...

3rd - you're comparing a $400 unit to ADATs costing double that - right away it's apples and oranges.... in addition, the ADATs are simply recorders - there's no on-board anything (except editing features) -- so all the cost is going into the recording technology compared to it being split in the Roland unit for the recorder, mixer, DSP, etc...

4th - downside is there is regular maintenance involved with the ADATs - it's tape-based so it requires cleaning... you also need to make safeties, but that's true for any recording gear you buy.

Personally - I would go the ADAT route -- the higher quality is more important to me than the inconvenience of regular maintenance and backups.

YMMV...........

Bruce
 
I agree with Bruce about the Rolands - stringing a bunch together makes no sense.

As for ADATS... I think their days are numbered. With the price of hard disk systems coming down so quickly, people will be abandoning ADAT and the hassel of multiple tapes for hard disk boxes. Not the Roland et al... mini studios, but the Mackie, Tascam, Otari stuff like this:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...4246614877/search/g=home/detail/base_id/54854

Cheers
Kevin.
 
Bruce you opened my eyes with a simple statement
there's no on-board anything (except editing features) -- so all the cost is going into the recording technology compared to it being split in the Roland unit for the recorder, mixer, DSP, etc...
Click to expand...
so its not just a RECORDER. but a mixer and fx unit as well so that makes perfect sense. when the unit FIRST hit the stores it was priced at $1200-$1400 which would be around the same price as an adat unit but if you take out all the "bells and whistles" im sure it would be less. thanks bruce.


hey LONG i considered the mackie units. they have 2 units for hard disk recording. now im going to look at the differences of the 2 units. thanks for the guitar center link.


czar


ps bruce why are studio prices so cheap?
 
The thing about the Roland is the data compression..thats the one thing that broke the deal for me..I was also thinking about stringing three together...These are not the porta studio type but the rack no board type..I think the Alesis 24HDR is the way to go for me ..They are out now and I've seen it at Mars music $1999.00.

Don
 
if you remember, the Roland VSR's were in the $1700 range when they were released. That unit has been discontinued (it had a pretty high learning curve, so a lot of people didn't want to spend the time to mess with it...)They are 24bit.
I used to have 3 DA88's. I've freed myself from tape based recorders and never looked back. The improved sound quality and lack of error rates make the roland a simple choice, IMHO.

However, if you take your stuff to other studios, and ADAT might be easier. Besides, some people just love having big piles of VHS tapes lying around. And cleaning heads, boy, do I miss that....
 
Speaking from what I've read and not experienced...

Rip Rowen of Prorec said something about ADATs, being digital TAPE, are not going to be as accurate as a hard disk.

Also, since it's tape, you have to rewind, fast forward, it can stretch, break, and all that other good stuff.

It's something to think about.

If you are already familiar with the VS880, then you'd pretty much be buying what you know. If you LIKE what you have, go ahead and expand. Even if you drop $1200 and end up not liking it, you could most likely recoup the whole investment off of Ebay.

24 extra tracks of hard disk recording and effects for $1200? That sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

DP
 
PannyDeters said:
SRip Rowen of Prorec said something about ADATs, being digital TAPE, are not going to be as accurate as a hard disk.
Click to expand...
If Rip Rowan said that, then he's a complete idiot -- that's a load of crap............

Bruce
 
It's not a secret (and hopefully not a little known fact) that sequential media (DAT, ADAT,etc...) use error correction schemes to compensate for bad data that is recieved in a digital transfer. (Look in your DAT,DA88 and ADAT manuals under error rate, etc....)
Random acces media (hard drives, jaz discs, bernoulli cartriges, etc...) produce exact digital copies of data, because every bit value is maintained.

I've just joined this forum, so I don't know at what level to go into this....

If you'd like to go into more depth about sequential media correction schemes, email me, and I'll explain it in much more detail....
 
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Except for the fact that the error correction works well, and doesn't affect the end result.

Error rates that exceed strict tolerances will disable recording at all on tape-based systems.

So it is completely misleading to say that tape-based digital is less-accurate because in actual use, it is completely irrelevant........

And, no... I don't need a lesson on error correction, I'm quite familiar with digital technology....

Bruce
 
I've got a VSR880 and I personally love it. The first 2-3 weeks I had it I HATED it. Also I wanted to let you know that it dosn't come with FX installed, that's another $285---per machine. Also, I think when you link them together you have lose 2 tracks, because you have to monitor one machine via the other. It probably depends on how you hook them up. I like the machine and would do it over the ADATS anyday. HOWEVER, if the Mackies are coming down that much, that'd be the way to go. The VSR is still pretty cool, but difficult to learn. Good Luck.

Jason
 
Then of course you'll know that Alesis and Tascam allow up to 10 eps. That adds up to quite a lot. Not to mention exponential error rates when making next generation copies and so on.
To say that tape-based digital is less-accurate is a known fact, and the main reason most engineers are switching to HD recorders.
I brought this up because you seemed to imply (by calling some guy an idiot) that error rates in linear dig. recorders was a myth....
 
Im not sure about the Roland hard disk but I sure would go with the Mackie 2000.00 machine over the Alesis. I just trust the Mackie name better now.
 
proximityeffect said:
Then of course you'll know that Alesis and Tascam allow up to 10 eps. That adds up to quite a lot. Not to mention exponential error rates when making next generation copies and so on.
Click to expand...
Show me the hard disk recorder spec....

It doesn't "add" at all... if that threshold is exceeded, recording doesn't occur.... error correction is such that within the tolerance, it is able to correct the error unnoticeably.

And jitter is going to be more of a problem in digital duplication than error correction. I'm not sure why you think next-generation copies are significant -- if error correction restores the original unnoticeably, then there is no cumulative effect a generation down...........

And don't tell me that's why hard disk tech is replacing tapes... in my opinoin, it has far more to do with the ease of use and random access to tracks (as well as editing features) than concern over the EPS rate of the storage medium....

Bruce
 
"if error correction restores the original unnoticeably, then
there is no cumulative effect a generation down........."

error correction does not restore the errors, it masks them. "The deviations from the actual data, with successive reproductions, represent a form of generation loss." - from Pro Tools TDM manual, referring to DAT and tape based dig. recorders.
 
:rolleyes: "it masks them..."

Yes, and the mask is effective at reproducing the original data - in effect, as if the error never occurred................

I thought that was obvious enough that I didn't I actually need to spell that out.............

And a ProTools user manual is hardly a good source of info.... the Alesis Nanoverb manual introduction probably says something like "We've captured all the nuances of a professional reverberation unit in a small, affordable package...." Yeah.... right.......

Bottom line, my opinion is that it is hardly worth worrying about EPS rates.... bit-resolution and sampling rate make far more of a difference to the sound quality...........

Take care of the A/D converter end of things and the recorder will take care of itself.......

YMMV......

Bruce
 
it's obvious that there is no use arguing with you. you only believe what you want to believe and anyone that has a differing opinion from you is an idiot....

good luck with your recordings.
 
Thanks dude.... you too.........

(ever heard of "discussion"??? which is what I thought we were doing....)

whatever..........

:rolleyes:
 
hey bruce when i made the studio comment i meant YOUR studio. your CHEAP. a setup like that here in california would run $50-$125 an hour. bruce you said something else that makes sense:


Take care of the A/D converter end of things and the recorder will take care of itself
Click to expand...
i have read from MANY sources and talked to MANY people about this. they say that if the a/d converters are of POOR quality the recording will suffer. now if the roland has good converters (some say they dont) this shouldnt be a problem. if it is a problem i can get an external converter but thats adding more to my chain.

i have 2 go now. thanks guys


CZAR of BIZARRE

ps guys dont let this get out of hand. im listening to ALL of you. i take EVERYTHING you say into consideration. if wasnt i wouldnt ask questions.
 
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