3 or 4 staple mics?

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Music Bear

Music Bear

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Hi all. Just putting my studio together. Was wondering what would be a good way to start my mic collection. I will be mostly recording male and female vocalists (pop, top-40, jazz, adult contemp) as well as a horn player here and there.

I want to pick up a handful of good quality mics to get me started.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
EV RE-20, SM58, Beyer M160 or 500 for the horn and I'll let others chime in for your 4th mic...a decent LD condensor. Wonder if those "baby" AKG 214 are any good?
 
mixmkr said:
EV RE-20, SM58, Beyer M160 or 500 for the horn and I'll let others chime in for your 4th mic...a decent LD condensor. Wonder if those "baby" AKG 214 are any good?
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Excellent suggestions. Although I might pass on the sm58. I would go with a big ribbon to go with the Beyers, probably an AEA. Perhaps an Oktava condensor (I like the mkl 2500 or the mk219).
 
I'd agree on ditching the SM58. It is superfluous if you get an RE-20 or an SM7. Personally, if I had to have just one, I prefer an SM7 to the RE-20. I have both and find the SM7 get used more often - especially for vocals. Both the RE-20 and the SM7 would work for horns and bass. Also useful on cabs and drums.

Are you micing any drums? It would make a difference in recommendations if you were.

The AEA R84 is a very good ribbon for horns and cabs. It isn't made for close micing, so depending on what sound you want for vocals, I've found it more useful for instruments and BG vocals than lead vocals. A lovely mic for saxes.

Are you going to want to mic acoustic guitars or overheads? If so, you will want to consider a pair of SD condensers. If I was buying those now, I'd strongly consider the Beyer MC930. I have a bunch of SDs, including the predecessor to the MC930 and Beyer makes some very nice mics. Another consideration for SDs would be the new AT-4051b. I have a pair of the 4051as and they are great, relatively unhyped mics.

Before drifting into LD condenser territory, can you tell us how much you want to spend? There is now a vast range of LD condensers available and having an approximate price point would help narrow things down. Are you willing to buy used? You can seriously stretch your $$ by doing so.
 
Music Bear said:
Thanks guys. So no U87?
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Depends. I have one. It gets used for things other than vocals more often than for vocals. The older ones are arguably better than the current U87ai.

I'd look at Gefell first if I wanted something on that order. A Gefell M70S (with transformer) or a UMT70S (transformerless) would be a great multipattern LD condenser to have. I have the cardioid only version and the transformerless cardioid version as well and they are great mics. More reasonable than a new Neumann (or even a used Neumann).

For what you would pay for a U87, you might want to consider some other LD mics including Lawson, Brauner, Bock and Pearlman.
 
pohaku said:
I'd agree on ditching the SM58. It is superfluous if you get an RE-20 or an SM7. Personally, if I had to have just one, I prefer an SM7 to the RE-20. I have both and find the SM7 get used more often - especially for vocals. Both the RE-20 and the SM7 would work for horns and bass. Also useful on cabs and drums.
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While I'd usually take the sm7 on vocals, give me an RE-20 on the kick drum every time. Let's compromise and have him get both!
 
SM57 (instrumental)
SM58 (vocal)
RE-20 / SM7 (voice overs / vocal)
Senn 421 (drums / Toms)
AT4050 (room / drums / male vocals)
AT4033 (room / drums / female vocals)
SM81 (room / choir)

Plus some ribbons for brass. Apex 205? Fathead II? and others.

If you're really serious about staple mics, you might check out the gear lists of several studios. Local ones to the big dogs. Most studios do list their gear. You could probably ignore the instrument, monitor, preamps, and effects captions for now. The rental section is of particular interest. For those big enough / smart enough to rent.
 
Shadow_7 said:
SM57 (instrumental)
SM58 (vocal)
RE-20 / SM7 (voice overs / vocal)
Senn 421 (drums / Toms)
AT4050 (room / drums / male vocals)
AT4033 (room / drums / female vocals)
SM81 (room / choir)

Plus some ribbons for brass. Apex 205? Fathead II? and others.

If you're really serious about staple mics, you might check out the gear lists of several studios. Local ones to the big dogs. Most studios do list their gear. You could probably ignore the instrument, monitor, preamps, and effects captions for now. The rental section is of particular interest. For those big enough / smart enough to rent.
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This is an excellent starter list. I know all these mics quite well. While I do agree with Pohaku about the LDC choosing...gotta know the budget....I have found that a lightly used or an older U87 will get you a great mic at a decent price these days.

As well as the bling factor.

Before anyone flames this, understand the dynamics of selling time.

I KNOW that without a doubt there are several mics available for less money than you can get a Neumann for, they sound as good (assuming you'e a good engineer) BUT..theres a certain selling point if you have the Neumann in the locker. They will pay for themselves many times over, and though it may not get used as the main vocal mic as much as you might think, there isnt many mics that sound as good for the room as one of these.

Imparting a huge room sound to any recording is paramount to getting you most of the way to that really big PRO sound. U87's do this better than most.

Having a rep for a big sound sells time. Period.

Another thing to consider...and this is if you have the budget for it, is get a pre 90's U87. I think they got rid of the battery compartment in 1987 or close to it. Find one with a battery compartment. Send it to Klaus Heyne or some other expert on the Neumanns(Klaus is the BEST) have it cleaned and reconditioned. Brought up to spec. Live with a great mic! About the same outlay for the street price of a new 87ai and twice the mic.

That will be one that gets used on all vocals all the time.
 
Wow, this is all great advice guys, thank you. I need to get these within the next few weeks, so I will start a solid list and go from there.

Thank you all again!
 
Shadow_7 said:
SM57 (instrumental)
SM58 (vocal)
RE-20 / SM7 (voice overs / vocal)
Senn 421 (drums / Toms)
AT4050 (room / drums / male vocals)
AT4033 (room / drums / female vocals)
SM81 (room / choir)

Plus some ribbons for brass. Apex 205? Fathead II? and others.

If you're really serious about staple mics, you might check out the gear lists of several studios. Local ones to the big dogs. Most studios do list their gear. You could probably ignore the instrument, monitor, preamps, and effects captions for now. The rental section is of particular interest. For those big enough / smart enough to rent.
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I have most of those and they are all generally a good choice. I'd take an Audix OM6 over the SM58 any day though. While the SM57 is a workhorse and every studio should have one for cabs, if for nothing else, there are many better handheld dynamic mics available than the SM58 for vocals. If you want to spend the money, I'd also take the Beyer M88 or the Telefunken M-80 over the SM58.

Not particularly a fan of the SM81 either, IMHO, I think there are now better options out there for SD condensers. YMMV. The OP isn't going to need overheads anyway, so it will depend on what other instruments he wants to mic and particularly if he wants to record acoustic guitar in stereo. Acually a pair of AT4050s works pretty well for overheads.
 
cavedog101 said:
This is an excellent starter list. I know all these mics quite well. While I do agree with Pohaku about the LDC choosing...gotta know the budget....I have found that a lightly used or an older U87 will get you a great mic at a decent price these days.

As well as the bling factor.

Before anyone flames this, understand the dynamics of selling time.

I KNOW that without a doubt there are several mics available for less money than you can get a Neumann for, they sound as good (assuming you'e a good engineer) BUT..theres a certain selling point if you have the Neumann in the locker. They will pay for themselves many times over, and though it may not get used as the main vocal mic as much as you might think, there isnt many mics that sound as good for the room as one of these.

Imparting a huge room sound to any recording is paramount to getting you most of the way to that really big PRO sound. U87's do this better than most.

Having a rep for a big sound sells time. Period.

Another thing to consider...and this is if you have the budget for it, is get a pre 90's U87. I think they got rid of the battery compartment in 1987 or close to it. Find one with a battery compartment. Send it to Klaus Heyne or some other expert on the Neumanns(Klaus is the BEST) have it cleaned and reconditioned. Brought up to spec. Live with a great mic! About the same outlay for the street price of a new 87ai and twice the mic.

That will be one that gets used on all vocals all the time.
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True, if the OP is doing this as a commercial enterprise (and it's not clear that he is), having a Neumann is undeniably a good marketing move. I have a 70s U87 and while it is pretty good on some things, the SM7 still gets chosen more often for vocals. On the right voice, the Neumann can be great, it is just that the SM7 seems to be better on more voices more often than the Neumann. Granted, I haven't coughed up the $$ to send it to Klaus (yet) - which may make a difference, but it is still surprising to me how well the SM7 works for vocals compared to many more expensive mics. The Neumann looks WAY more cool though:D
 
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pohaku said:
True, if the OP is doing this as a commercial enterprise (and it's not clear that he is)
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For now, this is just a hobby. I would like it to someday make me a few bucks, but I have a lot to learn before then. So far, this board looks like a GREAT resource for all kinds of help.

Thank you again!
 
Pohaku....You have a perfect mic to send to Klaus.

When you get it back you will find it hard to NOT have it up at every session.

I agree with the greatness of the SM7. It is as fine a LDD there is on the planet. I owned one many years ago....before I knew better to NEVER SELL A MIC!!

As for SDC's there are so many good ones these days. I always loved the 81's but they were older ones and I havent used one that has been newer than 84. Dont know if theres a difference. Had a set of 451L's for a time...great mic and I did own a pair of KM84's.....dont ask why I dont anymore....which I consider the finest I have ever heard for an SDC. I now have a set of 3Sigmas which have a sound not unlike the older Neumanns.
 
cavedog101 said:
Pohaku....You have a perfect mic to send to Klaus.

When you get it back you will find it hard to NOT have it up at every session.

I agree with the greatness of the SM7. It is as fine a LDD there is on the planet. I owned one many years ago....before I knew better to NEVER SELL A MIC!!

As for SDC's there are so many good ones these days. I always loved the 81's but they were older ones and I havent used one that has been newer than 84. Dont know if theres a difference. Had a set of 451L's for a time...great mic and I did own a pair of KM84's.....dont ask why I dont anymore....which I consider the finest I have ever heard for an SDC. I now have a set of 3Sigmas which have a sound not unlike the older Neumanns.
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I've given a few mics away, but I haven't sold any yet.:D How long is Klaus' waiting list these days? It was pretty long when I looked a couple years ago. I can't imagine it's gotten any better.

The best SD I own is a KM84i. Wish I could afford to buy another! With the vast number of new mics out there, choosing a mic can now certainly be bewildering. Lots of them are really pretty good and the differences between mics at a particular price point are pretty nuanced. I've not heard the Sigmas - now I'll have to go check them out.
 
Am I the only one who is curious as to what budget he has set aside and what he has already? If there is no budget then ya the u87 and those are great but what are you looking to spend? Do you have preamps? Stands? Cables?
 
ObiAudio.com said:
Am I the only one who is curious as to what budget he has set aside and what he has already? If there is no budget then ya the u87 and those are great but what are you looking to spend? Do you have preamps? Stands? Cables?
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Umm. Given the gear the OP has listed in his signature, I'd guess we aren't talking low budget mics. Having said that, pretty much everyone, no matter how flush, prefers not to pay any more than necessary. Usually the name of the game is getting the best "value" for your money, where value is defined, at least in part, by getting the performance you want from the selected gear. I'd note that the OP raised the question about whether the U87 was a recommended mic for his purposes.
 
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