2nd try (band im tracking-Metal)

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Wireneck

Wireneck

New member
I posted this song a while back (http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78986)
got some good advice/tips from you guys.
The singer decided to retrack his vocals so here the song is again with a new set of vocals.
This is my initial mix


I would like to get some mix comments from you guys. There are few things i know i need to toy with. I think the backup vocals may need to be a little lower and one of the guitar tracks might not be quite as loud as the other. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
Hey man.

I think the vocals could come up a bit overall.

Finally a snare sound I can live with!! GREAT SNARE SOUND!! Are you panning the overheads hard left and hard right? Maybe try only panning 80% left and right. The crash seems to overpower the right side a bit at around 30 seconds. Also I think you could try boosting the highs on the cymbals a bit to brighten them up and also give them some more space in the mix? I think overheads could come up too in the mix. Can you get a little more click on the bass drum? Maybe try boosting up around 9k - 11k. I know that seems high, but it works for me often when I can't get enough click. GREAT TOM SOUND ALSO. Are you just using 57's on the toms?

This is a very dense mix, so I was thinking maybe you could thin out the bass a bit by turning the lows of it down. Maybe have it more clicky and poppy and less bassy. In this style of music, often times you hear the attack of the bass more than the tone of it. It will help the bass drum to come through better I think too. Not too extreme like Korn or anything, just a little clicky.

Very good sound though, and very pro sounding. Outstanding musicianship on this song as well. Just sounds a little muddy and overly dense. Just try to give each instrument its own sense of space a little more and I think you'll have it perfect.

Oh yeah and I generally always mix vocals a little louder than I think they should be, because the won't jump out as much on normal speakers as they do on monitors.

Beez
 
thanks robby

ill try out some of your suggestions tonight. Im going to see opeth tomorrow night but i should be able to post an update once i get back.
Thanks for the comment on the snare. I think ive been really hesitant about using my eq but i just started turning and listening for what i thought sounded good this time.
Mic setup on this one for drums were 57s on snare, high tom, and the floor tom. 2 603's for overheads (they were panned hard left and right, ill try it not so extreme and bring them up some) and a shure beta 52 on the kick.
I boosted the lows on the bass because before everyone said i was lacking lows lol. I guess i got carried away or didn't quite understand what they meant. Ill see if i can make it have more attack and less muddyness. Definantly none of that clicky korn shit though haha, their bass is like a 3rd kick hit going on in the mix.
thanks again man
 
tried some of your suggestions

see if this is a step in the right direction. Thanks

 
Listened to the second mix. Good stuff! I have no mix comments. I have no knowledge about mixing metal (but I do like the style) Tight playing, man.

Flat-9, listen to this...I'm curious what you think.
 
pedullist-

i appreciate you taking the time to comment. I know alot of guys on the bbs skip over the metal threads (im guilty at times myself because i just get so tired of Nu-metal).
Since you didn't have any mix comments, i guess i got some of the basics covered ok. Thanks for listening.
 
You got the basics covered, that's for sure! Please don't worry about that.
 
It's back! I just finished listening to both versions of the mix. Goddam I love this song! The melodic vocals are far more solid this time around. I have to ask, did my previous comments inspire putting growling backups on the chorus? Whatever the reason, it's killer.

I was going to say something about the kick drum until I listened to the second mix, which has that thing poppin' beautifully. Are you sure you're not using triggers on anything?

Overall an excellent mix to my ears. If songs like this keep coming down the pipe this band will rival so many big names in metal...shit, it already does.

I'm done exalting for now.
 
Yes. . . Very good. I hear much better seperation in the lows and the kick comes through better. I hear the bass much more independently to the guitars now too. I think you should have found that by cutting the lows on the bass it allowed you to turn it up in the mix a bit more if you needed. I think the panning (by not doing it so hard) helps on the overheads sound more natural because your ear never hears them just on one side or the other completely.

I am on the second listen now and trying to find stuff.

Ok this is picky and anal, but you could try to get the snare up more in the mix where there is lots of double bass and guitars and stuff but not at 2:31. The tone you get from the snare there is how you should try to have it sound in the mix, but, keep in mind that in such a dense mix you'll have to make compromises somewhere.

On the fade out, I hear amp buzz and stuff. Why not just let the vocals hang over and mute the rest of the tracks? I realize you are on an analog board and that might be tough, so again I am just being anal and picky.

Great mix man!! Definately hold on to this version, even if you decide to give it another shot later.

Beez
 
This is good stuff, man...I can't say I know a thing about mixing or recording, but I know it sounds near-pro to my inexperienced ears. The snare sound is the best out of anything I've heard on this site so far.

The band is really tight - that drummer sounds pretty incredible. I'm not really a fan of screamed/growled vocals but I can tell when someone does it right, and this guy knows what he's doing. The song has a nice "extreme" vibe to it, far different from nu-metal to my ears. Great job!

-Derrick
 
Wireneck, you are the shit. This production job definately deserves alot of praise. this is the best metal mix i have heard on this board. Would you care to share anything about the recording process you used, like every frickin detail. this sounds so good. And the playing really kicks butt. What did you do for those guitar sounds...they are awesome. This band is awesome, and so is the mix. Share some secrets with the metalheads on the board. I am really impressed if i haven't mentioned it yet. Great fucking job!!! I am floored. Now this didn't recieve any proffessional mastering did it? If not you are amazing...if so you still kicked ass on capturing this one! I am leaving now to hang myself with my belt...unless you tell me your secrets.
 
thanks everyone

Linchpin-we had talked about having the screams in the chorus before but we were unsure about them because we have done that same type vocal setup in some of our other songs. Your comment did lead me to reconsider using the screams, thanks. Im definantly not using any triggers nor do i have the equipment/experience to use them.
Beezoboy-thanks for the help, i noticed the snare was a bit buried when the kicks get going strong as well. Didn't catch the noise at the end but i will go in and remove it now that you have pointed it out. thanks again
Synesthesia- thanks for the praises, I do what i can. Keep listening there are people on this board who are far more pro sounding than my little demos.
Analytical man- ill offer what i can briefly about the setup for this song. Drums were a 4 piece Pearl session custom with coated heads. Mostly Zildjian k custom/ A custom cymbals. toms/snare were mic'ed with shure sm-57s the kick was a shure beta 52. Mxl 603's for overhead. The snare and the kick got some compression and gating. Everything was tracked through an alesis studio 32 mixer. Bass was ran direct. The guitar was a 71 les paul custom into a marshall 4x12 cab miced with a 57/ at-3035 and theres some direct sounds in the mix as well. Vocals were recorded with an At-3035. If you have any more specific comments or questions ill be happy to try and answer the best i can, i don't really know what im doing, i just turn knobs untill i get something i like.
As far as the mix goes, it is what it is, because of you guys. And no professional mastering on this, just mixed into my alesis masterlink. Thanks again

chris
 
Toms, and Guits

Hey as i listen more to it i noticed a couple of tiny things that i missed in the first few listens, but the mix still kicks ass. I am really curious about the drum sound, you mentioned the set was a Pearl Session. Pretty nice kit. What type of positioning were you using for the overheads. And it almost sounds as though you have a high pass filter or cut a ton of low end out of the OH's. The drums sound real nice and punchy...i think they sound good. I am in particular trying to capture my toms better. Did you just aim and go on the toms or did you try all sorts of postioning. And you said you gated the snare and bass drum, nothing for the toms. Anyway i just wanted to know a bit about the drum micing you used, and also how many guits are layered and how are they panned. It doesn't sound super thick so i don't know if you tracked lots or not. But it is a great mix. Post another tune by these guys...it is good shit. Take it easy.
 
analytical man-

the overheads were setup pretty much with the 3 mic technique i guess. One was close to being right over the snare and the other was a little bit on the outside of the floor tom if memory serves me right (we did the drum tracks a while back). I may have some pictures, ill look and see if i can find them. I did cut alot of lows on the Oh's, i mainly view them as a cymbal/everything else that ain't miced mic for this style of music.
I positioned the tom mics aiming torwards the center to start with and then just adjusted to taste with my headphones on as the drummer was hitting his toms.
The guitars were basically a rhythm on the left and a rhythm on the right panned almost hard L and R. There are a track or two for lead up the center thats about it, I only have 16 tracks to work with and that don't go far with drums and vocals and what not. Also im not sure what school of metal your coming from but Im tuned (D A D G B E)
which won't sound anywhere near as thick as the guys who are playing in drop B and A but thats not what im after. Either way, thanks for the comments and taking the time to listen.
I will definantly be posting more of our stuff once we get the vocals out of the way.

BTW.... what tiny things were you talking about?

"Hey as i listen more to it i noticed a couple of tiny things that i missed in the first few listens"
 
GOOD STUFF!!!!

The only thing that i noticed was that the cymbals had a little too much high end sizzle. And by the way this is a very minor, minor complaint. It was mainly just about the high sound of the cymbals in a couple of parts. I think it was the high hat. And as was already stated the snare srum kinda gets buries just a hair in the heavier sections. These are just thinks i noticed after a few listens. But anyway this is kickass. I figured the tuning was up in the E-D range. Man, i love it all. I listen to everything from Morbid Angel, metallica, King Diamond, to Slayer, Fear Factory. I just love all sorts of heavy music. I hear you on the not getting as thick a sound on higher tunings. I am constantly balancing trying to get a wall of sound, but still retain definition and clarity. I retune my guitars constantly. Bouncing from E-D-B and back around again. Again i must say that this is great. Now is this a band that you are tracking, or are you in this band? Keep up the good work.
 
sounds so much better than the original! That drummer is great.. I'm listening kinda low right now but everything 'seems' to sound good..
 
thanks

B. Sabbath- thanks for the 2nd listen. Your opinion would be greatly appreciated if you get a chance to listen to it at full volume and in a monitoring setup or whatever. Thanks

Analytical man- im the guitarist for this band and im also recording everything so technically i am in the band and its a band im tracking lol. I usually would rather not say im in the band so people will feel more open to say what they really think. I would be more likely to say a band sucked if i thought you were the guy recording it and not playing, maybe thats just me.
 
i HEAR YOU DUDE....yOUR GUITAR PLAYING IS PRETTY IMPRESSIVE. i DOUBT ANYone would say this sucked. it's good...but this damn keyboard i use at work here sucks. All caps, no caps. Piece of shit. Post more when you are done trackingmore. I enjoy this type of music immensely. later
 
hey, just checked out both mixes. this is a killer demo. the song rocks, some of the tightest playing ive heard on the board by far. does your band have any other stuff? a name? where you from? seriously impressed. i don't have any comments really, sounds good.


jacob
 
Sounds good!

Kickin' some ass on this one.

Only nit picks I can come up with is I think maybe the snare is just a bit too loud, and I think the bass should give up a little bandwidth to the guitars.
 
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