250 CDs, and itunes, how serious is "borrowing" samples?

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shackrock

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So we're at it again with another rap album.

A couple of the songs have an instrument sampled...a couple you'd never even know it, but some are obviously samples from orchestral type songs (nothing hugely famous at all, in fact we can't even find out where some of them are from anymore!).....

Anyway, the plan is to submit the CD to cdbaby.com/itunes. Is this a horrible idea (me declaring that its all mine)? We're only getting 250 hard copies of the CD, and we just sell them ourselves, a couple local stores will probably take 5 copies each, but nothing mroe than that. We'll probably sell up to 50 on itunes in the next 6 months....and we won't be selling all 250 cds for at least a year or 2.

Guess I just don't know how to pursue this. the other guys in the group think i'm being rediculous, but if i put my name on the form - i don't wanna get sued by somebody, ya know? haha. maybe i'll just use thier name... ha!
 
You are probably OK, it depends on what you "borrowed" and who you borrowed it from.

It kinda works like this:

250 cds? you could make maybe $2000 in profit. For $2000 somebody has to get a lawyer to sue you, Its a hassle, probably not worth the 2 grand.

If you sampled an instrument, nobody would know or care. Sampling a tune: If theres anyone who would know what it is it is yours truly, I would know. If I was on it I would know and if I owned it I would know. If I heard a record with Beethoven 5 I could say "Hey thats the one I made with the ___ Symphony."

If you are involving i-tunes that could be a different subject. They might come down on your ass if you get caught. Over at another recording site, they dont allow cover tunes because THEY could get in trouble too, and a lawyer might jump if he thinks he has a shot at i-tunes money.

Send me a link to the tunes if you want, or pm me and I will give you my email, you can send mp3s to me. I will tell you exactly what they are and if you are in any risk. If I dont know em, I doubt anyone else on the planet will, I know a lot about classical music.

If you think it is a bigname artist like Yo Yo Ma, dump it right away. Same thing with Josh Bell, Itzhak Perlman etc. Those artists ( their managements) will sue your ass off. Anything by Sony or BMG and they will do the same.
 
If the Orchestral samples are from Beetholven (or anyone like that) they are free to use.
 
2001n4ever said:
If the Orchestral samples are from Beetholven (or anyone like that) they are free to use.
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That, my good man, is NOT TRUE. Not even close, you are way off.

Michael Jackson was sued ( and LOST) because they used a sample of the Cleveland Orchestra playing Beethoven #9, a recording from the 1960s. Read it again: he LOST.

What you are meaning to say is the MUSIC is public domain, NOT THE RECORDING. If shackrock and his pals want to buy cellos and record Beethoven they are free to do so. However, it is against copyright to borrow someone elses recording.

Let me put it into modern terms:


The song Silent Night is very old, anyone can sing it. If 50 Cent, Paul McCartney or the NY Philharmonic record it, you are NOT ALLOWED to use their recording of it. Nope, you will get sued and you will lose.
 
Here is a good article about it:

Article about samples and orchestras etc

Some excerpts:

According to Oswald's reading of US and Canadian copyright law, and some lawyers' interpretations, Oswald had thought that by not selling Plunderphonic he was legally in the clear. "I was fairly confident that what I was doing was not breaking the law, but I got a threatening letter from some record-industry lawyers saying that they considered what I was doing illegal,"

A better one:

Oswald found irony in Michael Jackson's action against him: Jackson has done his share of appropriating. Oswald says Jackson included, without attribution, more than a minute of the Cleveland Orchestra's 1961 recording of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony in the song "Will You Be There" on his Dangerous album.

"The credits to this song list Michael Jackson as the composer, the writer, and the rhythm and vocal arranger, but the track begins with a large segment of the Cleveland Orchestra recording, unaltered," Oswald complains. "It's even fairly hissy. There is nothing added to it until after it's finished, and Michael's song begins. Beethoven and his lyricist, Schiller, aren't mentioned. It's probably the longest example of directly sampled musical theft and plagiarism in pop music. Can anyone trust that 'Will You be There' really is Michael's song?"
 
hm interesting......

David I actually would like to send you a couple bits an pieces of tracks. Do you have an email address I can send it to? I'll post it on yousendit.com and you'll get an email with it. I'll just take a clip of any of the tracks that I have in question.

Thanks.
 
u think i would get caught using the barney theme song sample
 
D-Wub said:
u think i would get caught using the barney theme song sample
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haah, i got no clue.

i've really heard both ways on all this.
most people seem to think 250 cds is nothing to worry about, but itunes may be.
 
Hmmm... My band plays a hardcore song wherin the lead guitar plays the melody line from a certain popular Celine Dion song (the rest of the song is completely unrelated). How much trouble could we get in for that?
 
again, shit if i know. but i feel like you'd be aight. ha. i mean, are you guys huge famousyet ?
 
Well technically speaking, using someone else's recording is defnitely illegal. Do I think you'll get caught selling 250 CD's over 2 years? Probably not. Especially if it's not the bulk of the song.

It is unethical though, like the old "stealing is stealing, no matter to what degree." I wouldn't be able to do it, but that's because I'm a real stickler when it comes to that stuff. I know I sound like a whiny bitch but that's just me.

It's a judgement call really, like I said I don't think you'll get busted it's not like we're talking vanilla ice taking "under pressure" (don't take that as an attack on your music, I'm just saying that it's not like you ripped someone's whole song and you're playing it on mtv)

I would definitely be careful with itunes though, they're big boys.
 
Word. I dont like used non-legit samples myself. Future referrence, you could simply ask for permission, tell em how many you plan to press, they probably wouldnt even care or charge $ since you asked permission and the copies you are making are so very few. Plus it would make your credits look legit and clean with those clearances... I'm not suggesting to do so, but if you do use em, like said above, it probably wouldnt be worth the suit.. ya never know though.

LOL, somebody needs to create a law forum...

Also, for those of you plan to big projects and/or feel your music will reach out far, you can request to use samples and get just about any of them cleared by going through the Harry Fox Agency. To my understaning thats all their job is, is to clear samples and collect money. And by going threw them is suppose to be cheap, depending on the song, etc. Havent really peeped their site, but here is the link......PM

http://www.harryfox.com/index.jsp
 
shackrock said:
again, shit if i know. but i feel like you'd be aight. ha. i mean, are you guys huge famousyet ?
Click to expand...

Well not yet, but we're working on it.

The solution I've come up with is to just use a disclaimer:
"Any resembelance between this work and a certain popular Celine Dion song is done as satire and is, therefore, protected under fair-use laws."

Or perhaps something less specific.
 
being on the copyright subject....what is the best way to assure you got the copyright of your stuff...is there any site somebody can send me to to read about it. I heard a good practice being sending the stuff in a certificate envelope and never opening it unless you are in court.

Is this cost effective? Does it cost that much to copyright a song when people are talking about certificate envelopes...that are not cheap to begin with?

Thanks
 
I say go to cdbaby.com and read their digital rights FAQ, they have a lot of links to other places too for help.
 
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