2488 Effects - Flexibility

[Zaphod B]

2488 Effects - Flexibility through Bouncing

I'm trying to understand how to get more flexibility from the 2488's built-in effects.

I normally track everything dry, and apply effects during playback before premastering. This does limit how many effects (and effects settings) can be used on the various tracks simultaneously.

So lets assume that I'm starting with a number of dry tracks, recorded.

I understand that the multieffect can only be used on one track at a time, and mutually exclusively from the MICX4 effects (that is, you cannot simultaneously apply a multieffect and a MICX4 to the same track). I also understand that if I apply a multieffect to a track and bounce it to another track, that will free up the multieffect for use by another track.

Correct so far?

If I understand the MICX4 and MICX8 vocal effects, they are inserts, too (at least the block diagram indicates that they are). Does the same principle of bouncing apply?

So for a hypothetical: I have a dry track, and apply, say, some delay from the multieffect. I bounce it to another track. To the destination track, can I apply some (for example) compression from the MICX4 effect, and bounce this to a third track - the resulting third track having both the delay from the multi and the compression from the MICX4?

Still correct?

If I have this right so far, and have done what I describe above, then I should be able to use the multieffect and / or the MICX4 effect in some other setting for any, and as many, tracks as I want as long as I am willing (and have enough tracks) to bounce. Edit: And with a total of 250 virtual tracks available, I don't think that running out of tracks will be a problem.

How does the SINGLE effect fit into this? I understand that it's an internal loop but does the same principle apply? In other words, could I end up with one isolated track with an effect applied from all three types of effect engines, and have each of those effect engines then freed up for use on other tracks?

I hope I'm making sense here - any advice is welcome.

 

[Zaphod B]

OK, I'm looking at the block diagram again and I see that the SINGLE effect is available on the stereo bus in NORMAL or on the sub mix bus in BOUNCE.

I think.

(Scratching my head.....) So does that mean the SINGLE can be bounced, too?

 

[Zaphod B]

You fuckers are going to make me answer my own question, aren't you?

Okay, okay - but when I do, I'm not telling anybody!

 

[Zaphod B]

I'm really getting tired of talking to myself. But here's the answer:

The multieffect and the MICX4 / MICX8 effects are both inserts. The SINGLE effect is a parallel loop effect. As I posited above, you can indeed end up with a single track that has effects from all three applied, if you bounce.

Here's what I did.
--Recorded some guitar dry - Track 1
--Applied some delay from multieffect to Track 1, bounced to track 2
----Track 2 now has the multi delay applied to the dry guitar
----Unselect the multieffect from Track 1 and it's still dry
--Applied some compression from MICX4 (actually, I squashed the shit out of it to be sure of what I was hearing ) to Track 2, bounced to Track 3
----Track 3 now has MICX4 compression applied to the dry+delay from Track 2
----Unselect MICX4 compression from Track 2, and it remains dry+delay
----Track 1 remains dry
--Applied some hall reverb to Track 3 via the channel effect loop SEND control. Bounced to Track 4.
----Track 4 now has reverb added to the dry+delay+compression from Track 3. NOTE: the effect loop send on 4 is zeroed, and it still has reverb - proof that the internal effect loop can be bounced
----Adjust SEND to zero on Track 3, and the reverb goes away - but remains on track 4 even though the Track 4 send is also zeroed.
----Track 2 remains dry+delay
----Track 1 remains dry

So in the end I had four tracks with various stages of processing from the effects added to them cumulatively.

All of the effects processors were left unassigned and ready for use on any of the tracks, including the bounce destination tracks.

In fact, the destination tracks that end up with the effects on them do not actually end up with the effects assigned to the tracks - it's just the signal that is recorded, not the effect assignment.

Once you bounce a track with an effect, the effect parameters on the destination track cannot be changed. So don't kill off your source track(s) until you are sure you have the sound you want.

I hope this helps any of you 2488 users who were wondering the same thing.

 

[Zaphod B]

Oh, and in case you guys were wondering, I also figured out which and how many effects can be used on the 24 tracks, simultaneously. The easiest way for me to describe it is with an expression - please note the brackets and parentheses:

{(4 tracks max with MICX4 + 1 add'l track with MULTI) OR (8 tracks max with MICX8) } AND (24 max tracks with SINGLE)

Hope that makes sense.

 

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Z-man:

I'm sure that there are similar operating procedures between your Tascam and my Yamaha 2816. But, I seldom bounce tracks. However, I appreciate your info on bouncing.

I have also found that the patches on the Motif I use have effects built in, which are adjustable. So, most of the time, the tracks of the synth seldom need reverb/effects adjustment. This makes my work easier.

But, the voice....ahh, that's another matter. So many possibilities with that. I use the Yam built-in effects for vocals; however, I still keep my Alesis midiverb handy in case I want to add a patch from that box.

Cheers,
Green Hornet

 

[Zaphod B]

Thanks, Mister Superhero!

Since I'm just recording guitar / bass / drum machine and vox, the only thing I have that gives me the capacity for ambience (aside from the 2488) is the Pod XTL I run the guitar through. So knowing that I have the ability to pile up some of these effects is very useful to me.

 

[The Green Hornet]

Yo ZEE-Man in my age group:}

You might also consider running your "instrument" guitar,/synth/etc., through a good MIC PRE.

I have found this will indeed boost the quality of the track, of course, depending on what you or your ears want.

I did an A/B test using my Grace 101 mic pre. The signal through the GRACE was about 50% better sound than without it.

So, you really have many options. It's the TIME that gets us all. Sometimes I can burn up six hours getting the "sound" to agree with my ears for just one track. I guess that's why the really good sound engineers are so talented, as per the folks on this site.

So, I guess if you invest the time and struggle through the fricking manuals, the eventual outcome is SUPER.

Happy Halloween,
GREEN HORNET

 

[Zaphod B]

Oh, so you're old and decrepit, too?

Good suggestion about a mic pre. I've actually tried running the bass through the class A preamp model on the Pod, and that can help flavor the sound a bit.

But you're right - time is the limiting factor, and I just don't have enough of it!

Happy halloween back at ya. Are you going trick-or-treating in costume this year?

 

[RAMI]

Don't forget that ypu can apply 3 effects from the loop itself, if you have any outboard effects.

 

[Zaphod B]

Don't forget that ypu can apply 3 effects from the loop itself, if you have any outboard effects.

Yep, that's correct. I was just referring to internal effects.