2 soundboards/ 1 computer

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mickwork

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this might be too specific a problem, but here goes:

i just bought a new computer ---Windows XP-Home Edition, 2.93mHz-- and i'm not happy with the midi sounds (aside: am i correct in assuming that midi sounds are hardwired into the sound card, as opposed to something that i can change with new software?) i really love the midi sounds on my old machine ---Windows 98, 500 mHz--- which used a Turtle Beach Montego II sound card, so i put the Montego II sound card in my new machine. i couldn't locate the instructions and it's been awhile since i installed it, so i don't quite know why, but the Montego II is actually made up of 2 separate "cards". one fits into a PCI slot and the other smaller one is connected to it via some kind of small ribbon cable but doesn't fit in a PCI slot. it does, however, have RCA jacks and needs to be harnessed to the back of my computer with a screw like a normal card so that the jacks are accessible from the back.

so, after physically installing the card and rebooting, i expected windows to let me know that it detected new hardware, but it didn't. i figured i needed to try going the "Add New Harware" route. still windows didn't find anything new, but Device Manager seemed to indicate that i did have a 2nd sound card in addition to the card that came with the machine (it's really part of the motherboard; not a separate PCI card) because i saw "Legacy" components as well as something called "Aureal". i assume the Aureal is my new card (maybe i'm incorrect).

from there, i decided to install the Montego II CD with Digital Orchestrator Pro music software. i don't think this CD necessarily contained the sound card drivers. i can't remember if there even was a separate driver CD, but i couldn't find it so i moved on thinking i could maybe get drivers online if i needed. but, the fact that my computer apparently recognized it as being a legitimate sound card (the Aureal component in Device Manager/Sound,Video &Game controllers) and never prompted me for a driver CD made me wonder if seeking drivers was even necessary. during the software installation, there was a msg saying to be sure to select the MPU401 as my MIDI out device. i was immediately shown a panel with a drop down list and the MPU401 was in the list, but when i selected it, a "Volume..." button that was right next to the list was rendered disabled. this didn't seem right to me but i pressed on. after the installation, i tried running the Digital Orchestrator Pro software and i received a msg saying that the MPU401 could not be found. i clicked OK and i was still able to run Digital Orchestrator Pro. but the MIDI files sounded pretty bad, compared to what i had been used to. there's no way that i was hearing the Montego II MIDI sounds. also, my MIDI controller keyboard had a very slow response. i see from other posts on this site that my keyboard problem was a "latency" problem.

something else to note: my MIDI keyboard actually plugs into the back of the Montego II card which seems to indicate that the Montego card must be working, to some extent, with my new machine, even if there is a latency problem and cruddy MIDI sounds.

so, does anybody know how i can utilize my MIDI sounds from the Montego card?

and how do i correct the latency problem?


if you're still reading, thanks for hanging in there. i know this was a wordy problem.

i appreciate any help or advice.
 
hmm, sounds a little strange to be honest...

as MIDI is recorded via computer codes and bit rates etc, this has nothing to do with audio, thus being nothing to do with your soundcard except the output of the track. When you were using the Montego card, how were you hooking up your midi keyboard? Have you been using any different software? Hardware? or has it all been the same except the computer and soundcard?

Just read that your midi device runs directly into the soundcard so ignore that part about hooking up your keyboard...

Like i said, i highly doubt that the soundcard could affect the sound in the way your saying. The only thing that affects it is the ad converters, and i doubt that would decrease the sound so much..Just make sure that the soundcard is correctly fitted. Having a bit of latency is an issue we all have to deal with unfortunately, but in most cases its very little and is unnoticed.

Just check again to see if your using any different software or hardware and post again if you are. I use a mac so i cant really help you with setting up the midi on windows, hopefully someone else could help you with that part.

Hope you get to the bottom of it! good luck!!
 
thanks, tifstorey.

are you saying that you don't think the difference in midi sounds could be the result of using a different sound card? because i've definitely noticed that midi files that i've created with my old setup never sound as good when i play them on someone else's computer. and so i'm thinking that with my new computer, i'm only able to access the midi sounds on the motherboard's soundcard and not from my montego II. and the fact that i got a msg saying that the MPU401 could not be found when i fired up Digital Orchestrator Pro seems to go along with that theory --- that my computer couldn't see any other midi sources and the midi sounds that i now hear are the new basic motherboard sounds.

maybe i'm way off base, but this is what i figure: that my new computer came with its basic factory midi sounds and i'm trying to provide an alternate source for midi sounds. i assume that that's what the MPU401 is, but i don't know for sure. i figured i'd be able to decide which soundcard is active in hardware profiles or device manager or something. like, i'd be able to switch back and forth between the montego and the built-in one.

that stinks about the latency. i thought i might have read that this is something i can control. is there a setting either on the keyboard/controller itself or on my computer? i didn't mention it, but i never had this latency problem on the old computer. and now it's more than a little off.

so, to answer your question. as far as i can tell, the only thing that's changed is the motherboard that the sound card is fitted into. i'm using the same software for sound editing, Digital Orchestrator Pro, but i don't think that's relevant because i could always play midi files using Windows media player or Realplayer or Winamp and they all sound the same, but now the quality just isn't as good as on my old computer. the piano sounds too fake, stuff like that, ya know?

i almost went with a mac this time around. i kinda wish i did now.

thanks again.
 
I dont know to be honest, it sounds really strange. like i said, when your playing midi in, its not being recorded as audio, its recorded via computer code, bit rates etc. Once this is in the software its then transferred into sound via the softwares sound-bank (or maybe your keyboards?). The only way your soundcard affects this is when your listening to it. The fact you can plug midi directly into your soundcard, may affect it i dont know? it might be worth trying to borrow a small midi interface from someone you know? use that and see if you have any luck?

Latency shouldnt be an issue here, again, it all sounds like theres one little part which isnt sorted, its just finding that bit... Like i said, see if you can borrow a midi interface from someone, and that should clear up both, the sound and the latency issues.

If you dont know anyone who has an interface that you can borrow, i suggest try a few more suggestions from other members on here, and if nothing works, buy a cheap one.

M Audio do some decent ones: http://www.dv247.com/invt/9263

Hope you sort it out!

Good luck!
 
...as MIDI is recorded via computer codes and bit rates etc, this has nothing to do with audio, thus being nothing to do with your soundcard except the output of the track.
Click to expand...

That's a bit off base, Tifstorey.

MIDI data is purely the information that tells a MIDI-compatible device what to play. It is not the same as the digital recording of an actual sound. But both MIDI and audio are recorded as digital information, so in reality both are recorded as "computer codes." Bit rates don't enter into anything here, certainly not even remotley when you are talking about MIDI data. "Bit rate" is a way of describing MP3s or other compressed audio recordings from the standpoint of how much bandwidth they need for streaming over the internet.

am i correct in assuming that midi sounds are hardwired into the sound card, as opposed to something that i can change with new software?)
Click to expand...

What you hear from the MIDI data depends entirely on what you route it to. MIDI synths vary widely in quality. The Montego II had a pretty good one onboard synth; most cheap soundcards or on-the-motherboard sound chips have poretty bad ones. Actually, most on-board sounds these days are played via a Microsoft wavetable softsynth that comes with Windows.

so, after physically installing the card and rebooting, i expected windows to let me know that it detected new hardware, but it didn't. i figured i needed to try going the "Add New Harware" route. still windows didn't find anything new, but Device Manager seemed to indicate that i did have a 2nd sound card in addition to the card that came with the machine (it's really part of the motherboard; not a separate PCI card) because i saw "Legacy" components as well as something called "Aureal". i assume the Aureal is my new card (maybe i'm incorrect).
Click to expand...

The Legacy components were probably the Turle Beach card; the Aureal is doubtless the on-board sound device.

and never prompted me for a driver CD made me wonder if seeking drivers was even necessary.
Click to expand...
Drivers are always neccessary. There might not be drivers for your card, though -- the standard Windows driver model is now WDM, not MME, and I suspect that model of Turtle Beach card simply does not have WDM drivers.

i tried running the Digital Orchestrator Pro software and i received a msg saying that the MPU401 could not be found. i clicked OK and i was still able to run Digital Orchestrator Pro. but the MIDI files sounded pretty bad, compared to what i had been used to. there's no way that i was hearing the Montego II MIDI sounds. also, my MIDI controller keyboard had a very slow response. i see from other posts on this site that my keyboard problem was a "latency" problem.
Click to expand...

The MPU401 is the MIDI interface; if this is selected as the destiantion device and you have nothing external coinnected to your MIDI interface, you'll hear nada.

Yeah, clearly the basic MIDI interface on the board is working, but the sounds you are hearing are probably coming from the Microsoft wavetable softsyhtn. The latency you describe is related to this -- with MME drivers, there's simply no way for the software to take the MIDI messages, translate route them to a software process that's your synth, and create the appropriate sounds and route them back out to the audio output. You need to use either ASIO or WDM drivers to have a prayer of playing any software synth in real-time.

If you can get the Montego card's MIDI synth to appear in your list of devices, you should be able to load up different sound sets for the card's MIDI synth (if I recall correctly they used a sound file format called DLS, similar to Creative Lab's Sound Fonts).

I hope this helps a bit.
 
Apologies, I wrote that quite late at night as you can see, and i dont really understand why i wrote it reading it back now..

Thanks for clearing it all up Al! I couldnt understand why it wasnt working, but it makes sense now you say it!
 
AlChuck said:
You need to use either ASIO or WDM drivers to have a prayer of playing any software synth in real-time.
Click to expand...
Definitely need new driver's check here (Hint:Windows 2000 driver's are often compatible with XP):
http://3dsoundsurge.com/drivers/Vortex2/index.html
http://3dsoundsurge.com/drivers/Vortex2/Windows2000.html

You could also check out a universal driver like:
http://www.asio4all.com/
I've had really good luck with that one, on Hercules and Creative based cards, and might work wondefully for you. Turned my Hercules into a powerhouse again (Which features a nice XG synth), and I use it in conjunction with Delta driver's (So it should play nice with other driver's on your system).
 
thanks for all the info, people. you rock!

i looked into what turtle beach/montego/MPU401 drivers for windows xp were availabe and i couldn't find any that were xp-specific. i did see some that are supposed to work with windows ME and i was gonna give them a try, but i got nervous when i read that you need to be extra careful when installing drivers because the wrong ones can really cause a mess.

but now Atterion, you say that i might have luck with windows 2000 drivers? is there the potential that i could do serious damage?

by the way, i've since located the montego manual and it says that the MPU401 that i need is definitely the turtle beach montego II one, as opposed to the Aureal MPU401 that is showing up in my MIDI drop-down list.

thanks again.
 
mickwork said:
but now Atterion, you say that i might have luck with windows 2000 drivers? is there the potential that i could do serious damage?

by the way, i've since located the montego manual and it says that the MPU401 that i need is definitely the turtle beach montego II one, as opposed to the Aureal MPU401 that is showing up in my MIDI drop-down list.

thanks again.
Click to expand...
Try at your own risk. I doubt you'll do physical damage, and if it don't work rollback the driver. According to one of the sites I looked at, Aureal makes the default drivers for Windows XP for the Chipset on the Montego (The chipset is an Aureal chip on Montego 2). So by default your Montego 2 should appear as an aureal device under XP. Are you sure about the onboard soundcard being Aureal also???
Did you try ASIO4all??? Did you consider ditching the Montego for a newer card??? :D
 
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