2 part question on recording drums

[keat_taylor]

When recording drums do you prefer the scratch track to a click method or a capture of the drummer playing with the guitarist/vocalist. here's my dilemma:

not good at playing to a click track at all so I want to somehow isolate the drums from the acoustic guitar/vox in a fairly large open room enough so there is little to no bleed. The Drummer will be counting off and playing to a click so that we keep in time together.

thoughts on which is better and/or technique?

 

[grimtraveller]

I much prefer to play live with the drummer, I've never considered using a click though I'm not opposed to them. They are good and have their place. Coz the rooms I've always recorded in are fairly small, bleed from the drums when I'm playing acoustic guitar has always been inevitable. Damn annoying ! I've tried a few ridiculous things down the years like recording behind the piano {!!} or behind a board - but these made little difference. One of my more novel ideas was to put the inner roll from a toilet or kitchen roll over the mic and go close in. You get this strange but unique 'tubular' guitar sound and less drums. I was always into experimentation ! Nowadays, I'll track and not worry about bleed coz then I'll overdub the acoustic after as well. That way, I have more options if I want them.
A factor for you to consider may be how loud the drummer will actually be playing. Are these fairly quiet or vigourous songs ?
My advice is by no means de riguer, just something to throw into the pot. There are many ways to skin this particular cat.

 

[dintymoore]

For years you jam and play in your bedroom and do gigs and then you go into the studio and the drummer is wearing headphones playing to a click.
Here's why I hate it:
* the drummer should generate the time, not follow a click, that's basic
* drummers play with less finesse when wearing headphones (same as people talk loud when they're wearing headphones)
* you've spent years developing something and then when you go into the studio, you change and do it differently

I think people have gotten really stupid about how it sounds when a band speeds up or does things in "not perfect" meter. It doesn't sound that bad if everyone does it together, it can even sound good!

So I vote for only using a click as a last resort if there's no other way.

 

[Dani Pace]

Here is something I've tried with good results. I record a scratch track usualy 3 seperate scratch tracks, on 1 I record a simple drum part imported from my keyboard (I preferr a simple drum track to a click) on 2 I record a basic rythm guitar, on 3 a rough vocal, all recorded simultaniously. Then for the actual tracks I can play back or mute any of the 3 parts as needed to cue the drummer (or other musicians) through headphones to eliminate bleed issues. I find most drummers can play along with just the rythm guitar and vocal tracks (which were recorded with the drum track from the keyboard so they should be right on tempo.) This method takes away the stress most drummers feel when they try to sync up with a click track. It works especially well with drummere who are used to playing live or with little experience in a studio.

 

[DrewUberAlles]

Drummer perspective:
I feel like I am in the minority here but I totally prefer recording to scratch tracks. I am a drummer and I hate playing to a click but I know that even the best drummer in the world doesnt have perfect rhythm.

From tracking and editing perspective:
I edit in grid relative and do a lot of edits in my tracks. Punching in is way easier when the drummer is spot on with the click. The isolation is also good because with a quality pair of headphones there is no bleed.

What it all comes down to is what style you are going for. If you are doing jazz or indie you need your drummer needs to have a sense of dynamic and sets the tempo for the rest of the band.

If you are doing pop or anything more mainstream a click will make a big difference.

 

[Ephi82]

If you are recording a band that is tight, and I mean incredibly tight, try the scratch method and you will probably get a great performance and hopefully a great recording. Just remember that a recording tends to let you hear mistakes in timing that you miss when playing live. (and the best of the best have it happen to them)

Most of my recordings are done by myself, playing all the instruments. I learned the hard way that "I" am not a tight band! I always use a click if recording a tune with drums and bass.

Initially it is hard to do. Tell you what though, I am a better musician today for having done it (I am a steadier player and in time) and my recordings sound that much more "pro".....Do It

 

[RAMI]

I do all my tracks to a click (basic drum machine beat), and then do my drums last, playing to everything else. Yes, my drums are recorded last.

Anyone that says a drummer doesn't play as "naturally" with a click is an idiot. Like anything else, it takes practice,. But if you've been doing it long enough, it becomes second nature.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

Like I said in the other thread, it all depends on what gets the best performance out of the drummer. Talk to the guy and ask what he likes.


Just be sure that you have a count-off if you don't use a click track! Drummers love clicking their sticks in the air while barking "one, two, three, fo'!" so that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[TheChikenMaster]

timeing is the difference between a good drummer and bad one.
Learning to play with a metronome is very important if you can't do it you may ask yourself: can I really keep time?

 

[keat_taylor]

OK heres what I've got so far.
1. I absolutely cannot keep time if I'm not playing to drums. terrible at it. Oh well, I'm working on it.

2. Our bass player who is also a drummer hates the idea of drums tracking live to a click and a guitar. The drummer has no problem with it and plays amazingly well to a click. I prefer not doing pre made scratch tracks.

3. Here's my plan (give me ideas if theres a better way to go)
I need to spend less than 1000 on equipment to record this stuff so I was planning on buying the following:
Firestudio
8 channel snake
rackmount headphone amp (probably ART or something on the cheap side)
rack case
Kind of a mobile recording set up (I feel like the small label we're working with might like that more than paying for a ton of studio time then mixing and mastering time)

and borrowing some things from some friends:
hummingbird
57's/58's and an e609
B52a

we have:
B58
AKG handheld condenser
random other mics I cant remember

we'll be recording:
Donohoe 4-pc Drum kit
Fender HRDeluxe/VoxAC30 (fender 52 tele, gretsch double cut)
DI electric bass
Fender Rhodes Piano (hopefully)
ZB pedal steel guitar into a Peavey 1x15 steel amp
Acoustic guitar (martin DX somethin r nother/Epiphone masterbilt AJ500R)
Vocals (one scratchy voice guy [a la lucero/tim barry/hot water music] one guy with a higher prettier voice [ninties rockish] and harmonies)

Any tips on recording any of this/equipment would be much appreciated.