2-4 track cassette

[danny.guitar]

I know this is a stupid question, but I know nothing about analog and was looking at getting something to start out on since I want to try recording to tape then transferring tracks to the DAW for mixing. I think a 4-track would be more than enough. I was looking at this:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fostex-X12-4Track-Cassette-Recorder?sku=240282

My question is: What kind of results would I get? Is the quality mainly determined by the tape used? (Obviously there are a bunch of other things involved in the quality too).

Can I use different cassette tapes with this recorder to get better quality?

Also, I can't tell what size inputs those are? I already have mics and a preamp and all that so I'd like to be able to use those.

Any other suggestions for a simple recorder? I could get by with just 2 tracks (and it'd be nice to be able to record 2 at a time but I don't think you can with this one).

I have so many questions but I'll just leave it there for now, hope someone can offer some help.

I tried posting in the Analog Only forum but I kept getting a blank page.

 

[MadAudio]

The problem with most cassette multitrack units these days is that they don't offer line outputs for all tracks. If you want to transfer tracks to a computer, you'd ideally want to transfer them all at once. It has nothing to do with soundcard latency but the cassette mechanism itself. It cannot guarantee that it will play back the same bit of tape at the exact same speed.

I've successfully transferred my old stuff to digital from my Porta-One, but that was because the Porta-One has line outs for each track. Most units these days only have a stereo out, and the possibility of drift is great.

 

[andyhix]

The problem with most cassette multitrack units these days is that they don't offer line outputs for all tracks. If you want to transfer tracks to a computer, you'd ideally want to transfer them all at once.

Tascam 424mkii (and I assume mkiii) have individual line outs. I've used them for exactly the purpose you describe. I love the 424mkii. It IS cassette, so there's some hiss, and certainly track # limitations, but I've learned a lot on that thing. Buy one used. It looks like you can get one shipped to ya for under a hundy (on ebay).

 

[futuredays]

Back in my 4 track days, I used to use Maxell XL II S tapes. It's better to use shorter tapes, eg. 60 min better than 90 min.

I also have a bunch of these which are pretty good. I need to figure how many I have but if you're serious about this I could sell my remaining stock to you. I think I may have between 10-20 unopened sitting around.

Another thing you ought to look for in a 4 track cassette machine is one that plays at double speed. This will audibly improve sound quality. BUT, it will halve the playing time of your cassette, eg. a 60 minute tape will be 30 min long.

 

[danny.guitar]

I plan on kind of mixing digital with analog, some tracks will be digital others analog. Like I'll track acoustic guitar analog, transfer it to my DAW and then maybe put in drums/synths that are digital, and of course using plugins since I'm too broke for analog effects.

That mkII or III is looking good I'll have to look over it some more.

MadAudio - Are you saying that I will get drift when transferring to my DAW? And I won't be able to time-align the tracks?

The first tracks I record will probably be guitar going to tape, then transferring that to my DAW. Then adding other tracks over it using my computer (synths, drums, etc.).

 

[MadAudio]

MadAudio - Are you saying that I will get drift when transferring to my DAW? And I won't be able to time-align the tracks?

Not necessarily, but the potential is there.

 

[Golden]

the tape will have an effect on the quality of your recording. A 4-track 1/4" reel to reel would be a better way to go... Or better yet, an 8-track 1/2" reel to reel. For the best info available, see the analog only section of this site.

 

[andyhix]

Not necessarily, but the potential is there.

I'd count on it. Cassette machines never play at a perfect speed. It shouldn't be enough that you'd notice it [you don't hear any warble or anything], but you also aren't likely to, say, record a 100 bpm drum machine on your 4 track, upload it to your comp, and try to match something else at 100 bpm. It might take 5 seconds or it might take 5 minutes, but eventually it will drift far enough that you will notice.

Likewise, you will never be able to record 4 tracks on your 4 track, upload the solo'd guitar to your computer, rewind, upload the solo'd bass, rewind, etc., and expect them to be reassembled. This is why you need seperate tape outs for each track.

Finally, to correct what Futuredays said, a 60 m tape at 2x will only allow 15 minutes of music, because you are using both "sides" at once to get 4 tracks. there is no side A and B. So, even at normal speed a 60 min tape only gets you 30 minutes on a 4 track.

 

[danny.guitar]

2 tracks would be plenty for me. Also, time limit on the tapes isn't an issue. I won't be recording any 15 or 30 minute tracks. 15 minutes would be plenty.

What's important is being able to record at least 2 tracks at once on tape. Since I have a preamp with 2 channels and 2 mics. Sometimes a friend will come over and we'll record something at the same time, or I'll mic my guitar in stereo.

I will be recording just acoustic guitar or electric guitar onto the tape. Then transferring it to my computer and adding in drum machines, etc. So maybe drift isn't so much of an issue since the first tracks will be done on tape.

 

[ocnor]

I just don't see the point of degrading your recordings with a cassette tape. If you are going to transfer the tracks to your computer then why don't you just record to the computer to begin with? Even an outdated computer with a crappy onboard soundcard will yield better results than a cassette.

 

[danny.guitar]

I just don't see the point of degrading your recordings with a cassette tape.

I'm already aware that the quality won't be as good or 'clean' as recording digitally. I'm going for something different and I thought it would be fun to mess around with a tape recorder.

If you are going to transfer the tracks to your computer then why don't you just record to the computer to begin with?

Yea why didn't I think of that?