16 Channels of analog to Digital

  • Thread starter Thread starter hotrodder
  • Start date Start date
Aside from portability, PCI will probably be phased out before FW, so if you want an interface that you can use long term, FW may be a better option, that line of thinking sold me on FW anyway. FW is more popular now, and there are many more FW devices out there to choose from.

I'm not sure where to start on suggestions of FW interfaces that may suit your needs... The Firepod has already been mentioned-that seems to be popular, there's the Mackie Onyx stuff... I dunno, there's a ton of other stuff out there, I'm sure somebody else will chime in with other suggestions.

It sounds like a 1010 or a 1010LT would be ideal for you though, it would probably be my choice if I had a front end analog mixer (well, actually I do, but it has FW built in-Mackie Onyx 1220).

What software are you using?

What kind of console?
 
Thanks for the responses. You guys have made the decision easy. The console is actually two units - an Altec 1220 10 channel studio board with individual balanced outs on each channel, and a well worn teac model 3 with 8 channels, 4 outs and 2 monitor outs, which give 6 different mixed outs. Two of the teac channels are used for effects processing ( delta digital echo/reverb and a tape echo which is very warm sounding.) The choice seems to be 2 delta 1010lt's, or one 1010lt and 1 1010, depending on available funds. I'm thinking about using cubase, but I saw that m-audio has a version of protools - which is better? Should I consider the plugins available for each in my decision?
 
Hi_Flyer said:
Aside from portability, PCI will probably be phased out before FW...
Click to expand...

No probably about it. Because FireWire can plug into other existing slot architectures, FireWire will continue to be viable as long as any of those slot architectures still exist. Since FireWire PCIe cards are easily available (I have one), and since parallel PCI will be phased out... probably a decade before PCIe, parallel PCI hardware will be doorstops long before FireWire by extension. That's why I don't recommend purchasing new PCI audio hardware (at least not much beyond the cost of a FireWire card) unless the manufacturer has a PCIe version of their interface card available (e.g. the MOTU HD stuff).

In all likelihood, in a few years, we'll be saying the same thing about FireWire being around until the last HyperTransport bus goes away since there is already FireWire HT bridge silicon available and since there's about a 100% chance somebody will build an external HT adapter for FireWire at some point. :)

I would never recommend a Delta 1010. M-Audio has not modernized any of their PCI hardware for PCI Express, so I wouldn't count on ever seeing a PCIe interface card for the 1010. As a result, within 5 years or so, you're likely to have a hard time buying a PC that supports those cards. Their Mac drivers also suck big time in my experience, though that probably won't matter much to you since current Mac hardware also doesn't have any parallel PCI slots, and thus won't support the 1010 at all.... :D
 
All of MOTUs PCI devices come with a PCIe card, not just the 192HD. You just have to order the right version with that card (same exact price, just different format).

RME also has PCIe for their HDSP and now their MADI cards. The PCIe 9652 and 9632 will be along very shortly.

I agree about not buying old PCI and also with avoiding the 1010. That technology is 10 years old now. "Vintage" is not a good thing with it comes to computer recording. Ive already had some cutting edge motherboards that do not like even the newest version of he M-Audio Delta card.

Also, re: MOTU and Windows. The only better performer in low latency performance than MOTU is RME, maybe Lynx in certian setups. That "Mac Only" stigma is years old.
 
With as many "legacy" PCI devices there are there, you guys are smoking crack if you think they will be phased out any time soon.

I make my living in the IT field, and 90% of all the cards bought and sold are still PCI. You think it will go from that to completely phased out in a few years? Not likely.

But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night (or justify spending 3 times the amounts of money for basically identical performances...)
 
Mac Pros have no PCI slots, all PCIe.
I have seen 3-4 PC motherboards that are all PCIe, no PCI.

If you're in the IT business, I guess you're aware of Intels chipset changes for next year, elliminating legacy i/o?

3 times the money? The MOTU PCI and PCIe cards are exactly the same cost.
 
eh, for the money I still think its a good deal. I won't argue that FW isn't a better option, but on the used market, you can pick up a pair of 1010LTs for around $300. Hell there are brand new ones with a BIN of $165. Thats 16 channels I/O for only $300! you ain't gonna get that with FW.

The downside is that with the low price, you get slightly outdated technology and the risk that there isn't gonna be support for it moving forward. For some people, that may not be an issue.

So say you want to get in the game today, but you don't want to save $600+ for 16 channels of FW, so you buy the Delta and get 3 or 4 years out of it before you want to upgrade, is it worth it to you? Will a FW device last much longer?
 
I am not saying that PCI Express is not the way of the future. Because it is.
I AM saying that you will still be able to buy high performance PC's with legacy PCI support for the foreseeable future, so it is not a reason not to buy an interface today. The price comparison was between a MOTU interface with PCIe or a 1010LT PCI.....
 
I was just thinking that if you were looking at a MOTU 2408, you're going to be disappointed in the sound quality of a Delta1010.

My first interface I ever had was a Delta 44. When I got a MOTU 828 I was blown away. You could get one device that is quality, or get something cheap that works, then upgrade down the line to something letter and have wasted $300. Then again, you may start recordign for a few months, then quit doing it and take up riding horses instead so you're out nothing.

Just stuff to think about, thats all. There is no single right answer to any of these questions.
 
You can hear a substantial difference between a MOTU and a Delta 1010?
For real? Come on.
Between an RME and a 1010? I will buy that.

But I have used a MOTU 828 MKII and it is a nice unit, it is also 3 times the price of a 1010LT. Is there an audible difference, all other things in the chain being equal? I don't think so...
 
I can absolutely hear a difference between a 1010 and a MOTU. 100%, no doubt.
Not as much difference between the 828 and the Fireface 800. These are all devices I use every day. And I have the opportunity to actually test everything in the same environment with the same monitoring chains. This is what I do for a living.
 
Ok, I give up.
The dude should definitely spend 3 times more so the .1% of the population that can hear the difference, won't hear his music and say "EWW! Love the music, but you should have used a MOTU!!".
 
motu 2408 work just fine with windows, i have 2 mk3's ,no problems. intel proc.cant say about amd but i'll bet ok there too.
 
amra said:
The dude should definitely spend 3 times more so the .1% of the population that can hear the difference
Click to expand...

Same logic says no one should own a Neve Preamp, SSL console, or high end microphone....shoot, why pay for a Mackie when Behringer makes one that looks the same and does the same thing! You can make a recording using $100 of crap attached to your computer or you can make a recording using $1 Million of crap. Will your audience know the difference? Eeh. Prob'ly not if you suck to begin with. But maybe you dont suck and you want good sound. Maybe your audience is too drunk to care. Who knows.
 
Hard2Hear said:
I can absolutely hear a difference between a 1010 and a MOTU. 100%, no doubt.
Not as much difference between the 828 and the Fireface 800. These are all devices I use every day. And I have the opportunity to actually test everything in the same environment with the same monitoring chains. This is what I do for a living.
Click to expand...

I've never used a 1010, but I have used a 1010LT, a FIREPOD, and an 8Pre. Yes, there's a big difference in sound quality. Very little difference in sound between the last two, but the 1010LT was noticeably worse.

My experience with the 1010LT was that it gave a very poor sense of stereo field and added brittleness to the high frequencies, probably owing to all the electrolytic capacitors that littered the board. The 1010LT board was practically solid black when viewed from an angle, or black circles with silver centers when viewed from the top, with only enough space in-between for the handful of chips that occasionally stuck their heads out of the forest of caps. Okay, I'm exaggerating slightly... but not much. I think there are 38 electrolytics or thereabouts. The point is that there really shouldn't have been any... or at least not more than a couple for power filtering. Lots of electrolytics are usually a good sign of bad sound.

I was not at all impressed by the 1010LT in hindsight (though it seemed good enough when all I had to compare it to was the built-in audio on my PowerBook Pismo), and I'm blown away by how bad my old recordings sounded and how immediately and dramatically my recording quality increased when I ditched my 1010LT and Mackie mixer and switched to the FiREPOD and subsequently to a pair of MOTU 8Pres. The only other time a hardware change made such a dramatic difference was replacing my Nady CM-90 overheads with a pair of Oktava MK-012 mics. That was a similar "night and day" change. :)

To be fair to M-Audio, my M-Audio FW1814 is also dramatically better than the 1010LT sound-wise. I've had a number of other quirks with its FireWire implementation, but it does sound good. They've made some pretty major improvements in the quality of audio interfaces since the 1010 came out in 1999 (when the 1010 came out) and 2001 (when the 1010LT came out).
 
Ok - it seems that the 1010 and 1010lt are on the bottom of the food chain, although the price is within the budget. Some of you say that the motu stuff is sonically better, and some say not. Firewire, USB, and PCI (or PCIE) insterfaces seem to be a matter of preference, and from the discussion, may not have as much to do with sound qulity as with portability and the target PC's capabilities. As for software, Reaper is mentioned, (it's initially VERY low in cost) and again is a matter of personal preference. Protools and Cubase preferences have not been discussed, but there are other threads that deal with that I guess. So it seems I have to spend $600+ to get 16 channels of simultaneous recording at a quality level I will be happy with a year from now. Is this correct? Incidentally, I have been playing for more than 4 decades, and have had a number of records on the radio during that time. So quitting and riding horses are not in the cards any time soon (as long as I'm above ground.) I just want decent demo/cd quality product. Unfortunately, there are a lot of demands on the budget.
 
hotrodder said:
Ok - it seems that the 1010 and 1010lt are on the bottom of the food chain, although the price is within the budget. Some of you say that the motu stuff is sonically better, and some say not. Firewire, USB, and PCI (or PCIE) insterfaces seem to be a matter of preference, and from the discussion, may not have as much to do with sound qulity as with portability and the target PC's capabilities. As for software, Reaper is mentioned, (it's initially VERY low in cost) and again is a matter of personal preference. Protools and Cubase preferences have not been discussed, but there are other threads that deal with that I guess. So it seems I have to spend $600+ to get 16 channels of simultaneous recording at a quality level I will be happy with a year from now. Is this correct? Incidentally, I have been playing for more than 4 decades, and have had a number of records on the radio during that time. So quitting and riding horses are not in the cards any time soon (as long as I'm above ground.) I just want decent demo/cd quality product. Unfortunately, there are a lot of demands on the budget.
Click to expand...

Hi,
I hear ya!!!;)
Notwithstanding all the stuff said prior......
.....Just go with the bloody Delta's!!!:):):)
And Enjoy making your stuff happen!!
Best Regards,
Spit.
 
Last edited:
hotrodder said:
So it seems I have to spend $600+ to get 16 channels of simultaneous recording at a quality level I will be happy with a year from now.
Click to expand...

Be glad its not the 50,000$ or so it cost when I was starting :)

Yeah I walk uphill both ways, in the snow, on second hand retreads.....
 
hotrodder said:
Ok - it seems that the 1010 and 1010lt are on the bottom of the food chain, although the price is within the budget. Some of you say that the motu stuff is sonically better, and some say not. .
Click to expand...

no I would certainly EXPECT the MOTU stuff to be sonically better. you are paying more, you are getting more. Although, the MOTU/firepod stuff comes with preamps that you don't really need since you have a board already...

I probably should have asked first, but what is your budget?

you can always demo one Delta 1010. pick up a used one on ebay, if you think it sounds bad then you can probably re-sell for at least close to what you paid for it. and/or you could do the same with a MOTU interface or a Firepod.

It took me awhile to find an interface. I wanted eight analog ins, so I started with one Delta 44, then I got another and tried to sync the two. I didn't like that, so I tried a Yamaha i88x. I had trouble with the drivers so the search continued, I finally settled on a Mackie Onyx 1220 mixer with Firewire (although I still held on to one of the Delta 44s). It took me awhile, and I had try some different stuff, you may have to do the same.

if you budget is limited, but you want quality, can you get by with only 8 analog ins?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top