16 channel recording Digi002r

T

thesedaze

New member
I'm in a bind, and figure there's some smarties on here who have recording experience and can perhaps work me through this issue.

Currently working with a digi002, I have 8 simultaneous channels available. This records at 24/96. I'm wanting to record 16 channels at once, so I looked into the alesis Ai3 unit which connects via ADAT on the Digi002. The first issue encountered with this setup is that ADAT only allows for 48k, not 96...not sooo big of an issue really tho. The Alesis unit has it's own ad/da converters, but are limited by the ADAT's restrictions. I'd like to get the same converters being used for all of the channels anyhow, and don't want to be restricted by ADAT. I was looking into A/D converters, and Apogee seem to be the best of the best right now with their a/d conversion as well as word clock (the new Big Ben). The second problem I encountered is the fact that I have no way of hooking up an Apogee a/d converter if I'm already using the ADAT for the Alesis unit, and also there's the issue of being restricted even more with ADAT since the Apogee can get such a high kHz going (up to 192 I believe).

I thought 'well maybe I can get a second digi002 and daisy chain it somehow so I can use 16 channels simultaneously AND use the apogee a/d converters'....apparently digidesign does not support daisy chaining of digi002's. The only thing I can do in terms of upgrading the a/d converters is using only the 8 channels supplied in the 002r, and using something like an Apogee rosetta800 which has a lesser quality clock than that of the new ad16x, but still quality nonetheless. It also has d/a conversion which is nice for mixing.

So the basic issue is that I'm restricted to 8 channels with this setup. I really enjoy Pro Tools, but if the only way I can get a solid 16 channels utilizing Apogee converters to the max, it seems as though I'd have to upgrade to the HD unit, which seems atrocious. Is this really my only solution if I wish to stay with pro tools?

How about if I didn't HAVE to use Pro Tools, and just went with something like Nuendo.....what's a hardware setup where I can have:

-16 channels i/o
-ability to use all 16 channels of an apogee a/d converter/word clock

onboard preamps aren't necessary, but are definately a bonus if they are worthwhile.

Thanks
 
first ask yourself if you really need to record at 96kHz

also...what are you recording that you need 16 simultaneous inputs?
 
while the 96kHz doesn't seem to be horribly necessary, if I'm getting apogee converters that do up to 192Khz, being forced to work with 48Khz seems a bit sheisty.

A full live band at 16 channels...8 channels on drums alone.

While the majority of recordings will be tracked seperately, I definately need and have had inquiries about tracking live. I run a downhome studio.
 
well, you're not going to find any ADAT light pipe units that go above 48kHz. That's just the limit of the cable. I can understand how you feel limited though for the money you're spending. you can also take a look at the Behringer ADA8000. I know there's a lot of bad talk about Behringer products, but I know people who have gotten good results out of it with a 002. You can save the money for other things, get 8 mic pres, 48kHz, and keep your 24 bit depth (which i think you'll get better results out of first before going up to 96K). Good luck. :cool:
 
While i do understand your wanting of the apogee stuff, i dont understand why you didnt just buy HD in the first place.
Heres a fact. Youd better have one hell of a computer if youre gonna run a bunch of tracks and processing at 192khz with a oo2 unit..
Nothing Sheisty about 48khz man, Nothing at all.
I think 96khz sound a little better. But 48k more than cuts the digital mustard.
I would recommend picking up a Focusrite octopre or a digimax or something along those lines, especially if your base system is of the LE breed. Focusrite pres sound really great man believe me. And you can do 88 and 96 with it but you can only do 4 channels. so that plus the digi is 12 all day at 88 or 96..Hve em do some overdubs to compensate for the 4 track loss?
But just try the 48k i doubt youll be dissapointed.
Take care.
And by the way, this of course is just 1 option.
Im sure youll get alot more ideas on this thread in days to come.
 
Get a Focusright Octopre. You can usually get them used for about $600-700 US.

As the name indicates the unit has eight channels. You'll hook up the optical cable to the digi 002 and set the clock in your Pro Tools session to ADAT optical. Set the clock on the front of the Focusrite to 24/96 and you're good to go. The octopre will show up as ADATs tracks 1-8 on your inputs list.

You can record Analogs 1-8 and ADATs 1-8 all at once (assuming your CPU can keep up :))

The octopre's preamps are superb, much better, I would imagine, than the analog ins on your digi 002. They're fairly neutral and have a wide dynamic range. After two years with this unit up against an Universal Audio 2-610, I still can't believe how transparent it sounds.

Also each channel has a built in compression knob that ends up being a useful feature.

Here's a demo I recorded with it. Everything except the lead vocal was done with the Octopre.

 
I'm not sure exactly how this thread switched focus, but I have no problems in the preamp department what so ever. in my current setup, folks track seperately...thats my whole purpose for moving to 16 channel tracking, live....

my goal is to get 16 simultaneous tracks through the same apogee a/d converters.

If I wanted to stay 8 channels, I'd just go for the Rosetta 800.

If I have to ditch the digi002 for another device, or set of devices I will. I need to get 16 channels that allow me to use the same apogee conversion device.

I never said 48k was sheisty, I said getting a quality product like the Apogee which supports UP to 192k and only being able to use 48k is sheisty. I'm not saying I need to record at 192, but I shouldn't be limited to something drastically lower.
 
xfinsterx said:
While i do understand your wanting of the apogee stuff, i dont understand why you didnt just buy HD in the first place.
Heres a fact. Youd better have one hell of a computer if youre gonna run a bunch of tracks and processing at 192khz with a oo2 unit..
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you've compared prices, but the price of an HD system is far greater than it's worth.

I'm running a 3 GHz Pentium 4 with over a gig of DDR SDRAM, 80GB external Glyph drive, 180GB internal....the computer can handle to say the least.

I don't plan to run 'a bunch of tracks and processing at 192', but I don't want to be limited.

Back to the value of the HD...

I have a proper running PC at the moment...serves me greatly...I have a wonderful analog board, serves me perfectly. What I need is a system where I can run 16 simultaneous channels w/ the apogee a/d converter (which is around $3000, and another $3000 if I choose to go with the d/a). So let's say $6000 on ad/da converters, and while I understand this isn't a possible solution, for whatever's sake....the cost of 2 digi002's is around $2000. So that brings us to $8000. I already am stocked with analog pre's, a board, and a computer.

Getting an HD system would cost WELL above this $8000 mark, and I'd be getting lots of things I am already pleased with, and prefer OVER a lot of the HD unit perrefrials.
 
thesedaze said:
I'm not sure if you've compared prices, but the price of an HD system is far greater than it's worth.

I'm running a 3 GHz Pentium 4 with over a gig of DDR SDRAM, 80GB external Glyph drive, 180GB internal....the computer can handle to say the least.

I don't plan to run 'a bunch of tracks and processing at 192', but I don't want to be limited.

Back to the value of the HD...

I have a proper running PC at the moment...serves me greatly...I have a wonderful analog board, serves me perfectly. What I need is a system where I can run 16 simultaneous channels w/ the apogee a/d converter (which is around $3000, and another $3000 if I choose to go with the d/a). So let's say $6000 on ad/da converters, and while I understand this isn't a possible solution, for whatever's sake....the cost of 2 digi002's is around $2000. So that brings us to $8000. I already am stocked with analog pre's, a board, and a computer.

Getting an HD system would cost WELL above this $8000 mark, and I'd be getting lots of things I am already pleased with, and prefer OVER a lot of the HD unit perrefrials.
Click to expand...
Wow....:rolleyes:....
It sounds like youve uhm...allready got all the answers there big guy.
I was just tryin to help.

Have a nice day... :D
 
actually if you read my original post, I haven't gotten one answer. It seems like this board really enjoys promoting their latest gadgets even if it doesn't have any contextual value to the questions at hand.
 
thesedaze said:
actually if you read my original post, I haven't gotten one answer. It seems like this board really enjoys promoting their latest gadgets even if it doesn't have any contextual value to the questions at hand.
Click to expand...


It seems like there is one a--h--- with entitlement issues with a side of intellectual arrogance on *every* board. As far as promoting the "latest gadgets", isn't the "latest gadget" to get you up to 16 tracks simultaneously what you're looking for anyway?

I admit, I breezed over your question, but I still took the time to write about *my* experience, which is ALL THIS BOARD IS. People sharing their experiences, not TECH SUPPORT, dickhead.

Dude, c'mon, what do you expect to get for free? You just can't see that a bunch of people took thier valuable time to at least try to help you out. I pity you, then. You were probably an only child with a real attentive mommy, weren't you?

BTW I hope you end up spending much more money than you need to and hear about a 500 dollar solution six months later.
 
thesedaze said:
actually if you read my original post, I haven't gotten one answer. It seems like this board really enjoys promoting their latest gadgets even if it doesn't have any contextual value to the questions at hand.
Click to expand...

I think your attitude sucks.
 
isnt the point in making a thread with a subject to abide by the subject? If you want to share your experience about preamps, start a thread about preamps...this thread asks nothing about preamps.
 
I think if it where me and I was going to spend the $8k .... I'd pry go with the AD & DA-16-X .... Sell off the digi002 to help fund the X-FireWire cards and Nuendo.
But ... that's just me.
Not to mention the fact that you can daisy chain more 16-X's for up to 120 channels. :eek:
Hey ... maybe someday you'll want to track a live symphony. :D

Damn 120 mics and pres .... Anybody know any good lottery numbers? :rolleyes:
 
crankz1 said:
I think if it where me and I was going to spend the $8k .... I'd pry go with the AD & DA-16-X .... Sell off the digi002 to help fund the X-FireWire cards and Nuendo.
But ... that's just me.
Not to mention the fact that you can daisy chain more 16-X's for up to 120 channels. :eek:
Hey ... maybe someday you'll want to track a live symphony. :D

Damn 120 mics and pres .... Anybody know any good lottery numbers? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Im constantly astounded by how much you know about all this digital madness. Thanx Cranx. :cool:
 
crankz1 said:
I think if it where me and I was going to spend the $8k .... I'd pry go with the AD & DA-16-X .... Sell off the digi002 to help fund the X-FireWire cards and Nuendo.
But ... that's just me.
Not to mention the fact that you can daisy chain more 16-X's for up to 120 channels. :eek:
Hey ... maybe someday you'll want to track a live symphony. :D

Damn 120 mics and pres .... Anybody know any good lottery numbers? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

what would I use for an i/o interface though? a couple RME Fireface 800s? 16x's are only a/d converters and word clocks, not i/o devices.
 
thesedaze said:
onboard preamps aren't necessary, but are definately a bonus if they are worthwhile.
Click to expand...
thesedaze said:
If you want to share your experience about preamps, start a thread about preamps...this thread asks nothing about preamps.
Click to expand...

My goodness. You can't make this stuff up, can you?

Be real- you're like 17 years old, right? Rich kid, daddy bought you a studio so you'd quit bothering him? :)
 
dgrady76 said:
My goodness. You can't make this stuff up, can you?

Be real- you're like 17 years old, right? Rich kid, daddy bought you a studio so you'd quit bothering him? :)
Click to expand...

They were an ADDED BONUS...not the main issue...

I'm 21, parents have paid for nothing. I've bought everything with my business partner, been in the business for 2 years, doing fine.
 
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