$150 for a Mastering Job?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JohnnyAppleseed
  • Start date Start date
J

JohnnyAppleseed

New member
Yes, I've read the horror stories of these budget mastering facilities with 16 year olds running the mix through T-racks.

I am looking for a budget mastering house, with a real, verifiable engineer who can master my 28 minute (9 song) EP album into something that would be playable on an "indie" radio station. Something that the director of KCRW wouldn't just chuck to the side but would actually play on his station because he thinks it was professionally mastered or at least decent enough for airplay.

Yes I know finding a budget mastering house that is reliable and cheap is about as rare as finding the Ark of the Covenent or a unicorn with a golden horn. But I'm desperate. No, I don't have $400 for a pro job at Massive Mastering, I wish I did because that was my first choice. No I don't have $300. I have exactly $150 bucks. The only way I can get another 200 bucks is if I go to the blood blank and sell plasma or something, but I can't do that right now.

Do I need the most perfect job with state of the art analog equipment? No. Can I deal with some digital solution in the box? Yes, that's what I'm going for. Not some guy with some setup in his basement who is going to just EQ my mix and send it back to me (I can do that myself). But a legit engineer who can get me a decent digital master without spending the whole day working on it.

I read an article that said 90% of the mastering is done within an hour or two and the other 10% (the important tweaking) takes 90% of the remaining time. What I need is somebody who will do the basic hour or two of mastering and do a tweak job that is rushed enough to get me a decent mix off to the radio station. Doesn't have to be perfect. But good enough to fool the masses...

Something that a mastering engineer who worked on the last Disney movie score would say, "Well, that's not bad but could use improvement with a couple more hours of work." It just needs to be GOOD, not GREAT in other words. I need a 4 or 5 hour rush job which basically would come out to about $30 an hour.

That being said... can anybody help me find my Golden Unicorn? Somebody who is trustworthy, has a real setup and is willing to help a starving artist get his CD halfway off the ground? Or am I truly looking for the impossible?

Thanks in advance.
 
http://www.rodneymills.com

never tried him, but the credits should blow away anyone on this forum and his equipment seems top notch and his prices just don't seem right. I've had internet "friends" that speak highly of him. Was in the "industry" and moved stuff to his house, I understand.

I'd tempted to spend a couple hundred $$ and see what's up.
 
That Rodney Mills guy is going to cost a lot more than $150. His rate is $15 per minute of music, so JohnnyAppleseed's 28 minute album is going to cost $420.

I find it hard to believe there are any legit mastering engineers that will master an album for $150. And I'm not sure you'd want to have your album mastered by anyone that would do it for $150.

I'm pretty sure you are going to get that 16 year old kid in his basement, or some variation thereof. The most anyone is going to do is run all the tracks through a "mastering" processor or plugins. They'll do it in one pass and probably use presets. That's not really mastering, in my opinion.

Maybe get T-Racks and do it yourself?
 
I'm not 16, will use Harbal and do it for you for $150. That sounds too obtuse to be a "variation thereof" and I'm even upstairs and not in a basement :)

That way I can make my $99 back on Harbal and $51 towards Ozone :D
 
So... wadda ya all think of Rodney Mills (at first sight)? $900 for a 60 minute CD seems almost cheap just to have his name (legally :rolleyes: ) in your credits.

No slouch gear and the "past clients" list is certainly up there.
 
Whether recordings get air-play or not isn't determined by the mastering job. It's the quality of the music that makes or breaks it.
 
mixmkr said:
So... wadda ya all think of Rodney Mills (at first sight)? $900 for a 60 minute CD seems almost cheap just to have his name (legally :rolleyes: ) in your credits.

No slouch gear and the "past clients" list is certainly up there.
Click to expand...

Who cares if Rodney Mills is in your credits? I never heard of him until this thread. Nobody, and I mean *nobody* is going to listen to your CD because of who mastered it.

His past credits should primarily be of interest to you to determine whether he is familiar with your style of music.

Anyway, if you like the way those albums sounded the person that really had more of an influence on that is the mix engineer, not the mastering engineer. So having this guy master your record will not necessarily give that sound, unless you've already gotten there with your mix. In that case he'll just give it some polish and get it leveled out right.

mixmkr has the right idea: buy software for $99 then charge $150 to use it to "master" a CD. I predict a bright future for mixmkr! But then again, why wouldn't JohnnyAppleseed just pay the $99 for Harbal and do it himself? :-)
 
I don't spend the $99 on Harbal because I "don't get" mastering. Yes, I admit that sounds weird. But I'm one of those weirdos who doesn't really understand the intricacies of a good master vs something that's not mastered.

Sometimes there will be two tracks on a mastering website, one of the pro ones. One track will be the pre-master and one will say something like, "Hear the difference in the second track that we mastered. See the audio clarity?"

To me it sounds almost exactly the same as the first pre-master. That's why I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am not qualified to master anybody's songs let alone my own. My idea of mastering would probably be something like this:

1. Apply a tiny bit of compression (10 second tweak).

2. Drop the low frequencies about 10 percent (20 seconds).

3. Boost the mids about 5% (10 seconds).

4. Boost the highs about 7.5% (10 seconds).

5. Add a stereo imager and make it a bit wide (10 seconds).

Total mastering time if I do it myself = 1 minute.

Like I said, I know nothing about the mastering process, honestly or I would do it myself. All I know is that my mixes sound flat and that boosting the high frequencies and adding a stereo imager makes them sound more like commercial stuff. I have no idea when there's too much high boosting or what the heck the difference is between wide and narrow stereo image. To me, it sounds, different, but why is a wide stereo image better in some cases and why is a narrow image better in others? I have no idea whatsoever.

That's why I need a better set of ears than my own.
 
ARISEN! said:
$400 is WAY TOO MUCH for most bands to pay JUST for mastering a stupid demo CD.
Click to expand...
That's the cost of one Friday night gig for a 4-piece band at your local roadhouse bar.

If a band can't afford that to make a demo and do it right, then there's either something wrong with their accounting or they need to stop drinking during set breaks after their 12th beer.

G.
 
I just think you shouldn't be too quick to knock down many "young people" these days.
I know plenty of 16 year olds who can get a great sounding record, better than indie, to get on the radio and master it well.
My 1 and a half shilling
Aviv
 
ARISEN! said:
Spoken like the truly ignorant fool you are!
Click to expand...
Now, was that really necessary? How'd that work out for you; you feel better now?

Childish schoolyard name-calling aside, perhaps you could enlighten us all as to just what was incorrect about my post, and not just try and hawk business for yourself in private messages.

After 30 years in this racket, I can tell you that $100/band member for a 3-set, one night gig in your local bar is a very common going rate on the local bar/pub circuits where most bands start out.

A demo record is the band's equivalent of a resume. It only makes sense to take some pride and do it right and not just phone in the process; not just in mastering, but all along the process.

Now, sure, there are some things that your typical struggling band just can't afford. We all understand that. But it seems to me that the investment of one Friday night of 4-hours of playing and drinking in order to get back an A-list-quality package from a reputable source is extremely reasonable.

Hell, if I were one of those bands, I'd find it worth it just to deal with someone who will respect the job and the client and not think of my efforts as just a "stupid demo CD". It's not stupid to them.

And, no, I am not a professional mastering engineer. So don't try to hang that bias on me either.

G.
 
Last edited:
SonicAlbert said:
Who cares if Rodney Mills is in your credits? I never heard of him until this thread. Nobody, and I mean *nobody* is going to listen to your CD because of who mastered it.

His past credits should primarily be of interest to you to determine whether he is familiar with your style of music.

Anyway, if you like the way those albums sounded the person that really had more of an influence on that is the mix engineer, not the mastering engineer. So having this guy master your record will not necessarily give that sound, unless you've already gotten there with your mix. In that case he'll just give it some polish and get it leveled out right.

mixmkr has the right idea: buy software for $99 then charge $150 to use it to "master" a CD. I predict a bright future for mixmkr! But then again, why wouldn't JohnnyAppleseed just pay the $99 for Harbal and do it himself? :-)
Click to expand...


Sonic, you're a piece of work. Obviously you don't understand the slant of my comment or have grasped the emoticon after the sentence.

Maybe you should master from Mr. Appleseed as it seems you know all the answers.

Glad you know who Rodney is now. :p A couple more people, and you'll now have heard of a handfull of people that are sucessful in the music industry.

So... what are you doing for your "bright music future" that you might pass on to the rest of us? Being a jerk on the internet?

Oh...btw, I disagree with your comment on not attracting listeners because of who might have been involved. Maybe your little sister couldn't care after the fact of tracking and mixing, but you might be supprised why so many mastering engineers are so successful at their trade.
 
Just wanted to thank everyone for their replies and do my best Rodney King impression by saying, "Can't we all just get along?"

I wasn't trying to start a fight about whether mastering is good for a independent demo or not. Personally, I want to master my tracks because I not only want to demo them out, but also potentially "self-publish" them in a cd that I burn on my own.

If I do end up duplicating the CD down the line, I want people to get their money's worth and at least have a professional sounding cd with the levels lined up, the highs where they need to be and just professional sounding overall without me having to sell bone marrow.

So personally for me, the money is worth it and well spent, if I had the full amount to send it to a pro. The problem is that I don't have that money so that was the reason for the original post. Luckily I have worked out something with someone at this time and hopefully will be able to get this thing mastered after all.

So this is my thank you message to everyone who responded. =)

Regarding mastering, I think it comes down to personal choice. My personal choice is to get my tracks listened to by a pro and adjusted so that they are radio friendly, cd friendly and just because it will make me happy to know that they got one final listen to by a pro who knows more than me about the music industry. Personally just having a pro listen to my music is money well spent. For somebody to tell me my mixes are good enough for mastering and then mastering for the final touches... I think that's worth it. I wish it weren't so expensive of course, but what can I do about that?

At least this board has helped me get in contact with some very nice people... =)
 
$150? send a track my way and i'll give it a go...i'm not gonna claim to be any sort of pro ME, but anyone who's gonna master your 28 min. demo for $150 would be lying if they told you they are

worst thing that could happen is that you think my "master" sucks and tell me to piss off
 
I recall running onto a wesite that was like 50 bucks a song I think..I don't know how good the engineer is but I will try and find the website again..and give you the link so you can check it out
 
JohnnyAppleseed said:
But I'm desperate. No, I don't have $400 for a pro job at Massive Mastering, I wish I did because that was my first choice. No I don't have $300. I have exactly $150 bucks. The only way I can get another 200 bucks is if I go to the blood blank and sell plasma or something, but I can't do that right now...

I need a 4 or 5 hour rush job which basically would come out to about $30 an hour.
Click to expand...
Desperate? Hey, there's a rat after pa!

How about getting a job? You could make that much in a week or two at freakin McDonalds. Is not his time worth your time? Charity begins at home dude.

I need a 4 or 5 hour rush job.... Waaaaa.......need any cheese with that whine?
 
Man, I wish we could still give negative REP around here, there's a couple people just begging for it.

The thing about attracting listeners based on who mixed or mastered the album: only people in the industry care about that. And they don't buy albums in numbers--you can't make a living selling albums to other mixers or mastering engineers. The people that really will support you are the general public and they won't buy tickets or purchase the album based who your mastering engineer was. The music is the thing.

Yeah, if some big name artist was on the album that would attract wider interest among listeners and fans. But the mastering engineer, that's strictly an industry thing.

The thing you need to keep in mind is that the music business is a very very big one. Rodney Mills has mastered mostly Rock/pop, Hip Hop/R&B, Country, and some others. Mostly bands that I personally have never heard of, and maybe wouldn't hear of unless I was working in those particular areas of music. I'm a classically trained musician and work in a whole different area of music, so there's no real reason why I would know this guy. Not really sure why you took that so personally.

As for my "bright future" comment, I meant that in a humorous light-hearted way, I never imagined it would be taken with any kind of negativity. I'm sure that you do indeed have a very bright future and are super mega talented and deserve everything you think you should have. I really do wish you the best for a happy and positive life.
 
Most of the veteran musicians, engineers and forum regulars around here understand and preach the concept that the quality needs to be frontloaded in the process, that most of the "value" comes from the performance, followed by the tracking quality, followed by the mixing job, and finally by the mastering process. *BUT* that doesn't mean that - all else being equal - one can or should just phone in the mastering phase. It comes down to pride in workmanship being the key to getting the best results. If that's a bad thing, than I and most of the vets around here are evil, evil people.

Of course not everybody can afford the best of everything, nor is the absolute best of everything always necessary for every project. There's nobody that I know of in my 3.5+ years here who would seriously say otherwise. But at the same time, I don't think very many people would advocate cutting corners that don't need to be cut.

When it comes to mastering, the pros that charge in the $15/minute or $50/song range can do some spectacular things with mixes that your average schmoe with a DAW, an MBC and a belief that mastering is mostly about making things mo' louda', mo' betta' wouldn't dream of attempting. They earn every penny of what they make, and the rate they charge when averaged out over the time is no more than any other pro in any other trade, and will put bread on the family's dinner table, but most likely won't be putting them in the lap of luxury any time soon.

We just finished a thread here a couple of weeks ago having to do with analytical listening skills where one of the resident MEs who also teaches mastering engineering classes at local colleges actually took a mix submitted by one of the forum members here and gave it to his class as a project. The finalists submitted back some excellent mastering jobs that your average mastering by email wannabe that charges $10 song or $100 an album or something like that couldn't accomplish if you gave them a lifetime to do it. And these were just the students.

But most of all, they take pride in their work and show respect for their client and their client's work. It's disheartening to hear someone who claims to master for money call the client's efforts "stupid" and intimate that they themselves don't put much value in the very mastering task they themselves perform. Personally, I wouldn't want someone with that attitude to do my mastering for me even if they offered it for free.

G.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top