100' xlr - 1/4" unbalanced snake

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mannyev

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Hi, I'm new to the forum. I need some help.
I just bought a 8 channel snake for my amp rack. I notice however that the 1/4" ends are unbalanced(xlr on the other). How bad will this effect my signal? Does this mean that the cable per say is unbalanced? Can I change the ends?
 
if it were shorter not so much but 100' unbalanced is pushing it. just take apart the xlr end and see if it has two conductors and a shield, if it does just change the 1/4 ts ends to 1/4" trs or xlr if you so require, otherwise take your chances and dream about what might have been.
 
i think ya got hosed... the limit for unballanced linelevel signals is @45ft... and i think you're pushing it at 30-35ft... check it as pete suggested... with luck there's wiring for balanced... wonder why they did a ts snake??? youl'd think anybody doing this would know better...
 
We used unbalanced 100 foot snakes for the sends back to the stage for monitors and mains for years and never had anyproblems with noise.
Try it and see what happens but Il bet you wont have any problems.
 
We used unbalanced 100 foot snakes for the sends back to the stage for monitors and mains for years and never had anyproblems with noise.
Try it and see what happens but Il bet you wont have any problems.


the noise that could be allowed in a live rig is maybe 10X's higher than would be objectionable in a recording rig... YMMV...
 
We used unbalanced 100 foot snakes for the sends back to the stage for monitors and mains for years and never had anyproblems with noise.
Try it and see what happens but Il bet you wont have any problems.

Were you using an unbalanced cable run the whole way? Or was is a standard 2 conductor plus shield cable that was only wired to unbalanced connectors at the amplifier end?
 
Were you using an unbalanced cable run the whole way? Or was is a standard 2 conductor plus shield cable that was only wired to unbalanced connectors at the amplifier end?

That doesn't really matter; if the termination is unbalanced, it's unbalanced.

Also, monitor returns are quite a lot different than if this snake was intended for mics, in which case a 100' unbalanced run is a big problem (even worse if you'd wanted to use condensers!)
 
That doesn't really matter; if the termination is unbalanced, it's unbalanced.

Also, monitor returns are quite a lot different than if this snake was intended for mics, in which case a 100' unbalanced run is a big problem (even worse if you'd wanted to use condensers!)

I was under the impression that if signal started balanced at one end and then unbalanced at the amp end that the shield in the cable would still help protect against certain types of inducted noise. Basically, the foil shield can still help to reject certain RF etc... whereas if the signal was sent down something similar to a speaker wire with no shielding that al 100' would be more succeptable to stuff like RF and other things en route to the amps. Basically, I run all of my returns in all of my live rigs as balanced throughout. On occasion however, often due to circumstances that are unresolvable in a reasonable time efficient manor, lifting the signal ground (cutting pin 3) is used to help battle noise issues, but this is always done at the male XLR end on a return line so that the wire is run intact until the last moment when it is cut. My experience has shown that balanced is certainly prefereable on long runs, even for line level returns to stage.
 
I was under the impression that if signal started balanced at one end and then unbalanced at the amp end that the shield in the cable would still help protect against certain types of inducted noise. Basically, the foil shield can still help to reject certain RF etc... whereas if the signal was sent down something similar to a speaker wire with no shielding that al 100' would be more succeptable to stuff like RF and other things en route to the amps. Basically, I run all of my returns in all of my live rigs as balanced throughout. On occasion however, often due to circumstances that are unresolvable in a reasonable time efficient manor, lifting the signal ground (cutting pin 3) is used to help battle noise issues, but this is always done at the male XLR end on a return line so that the wire is run intact until the last moment when it is cut. My experience has shown that balanced is certainly prefereable on long runs, even for line level returns to stage.

I agree running a speaker wire for a line level return is a really bad idea. There is no question that a line level signal should be shielded.

I think the results of cutting pin 3 are going to vary. I am also still not sure what signal the OP intends for this snake, so I am going to have to cover a few bases:

If you're talking a balanced line-level send, most will be either impedance balanced or active balanced. If you cut or ground pin 3 on an impedance balanced send, you are essentially just discarding the impedance balancing, which you wouldn't enjoy with an unbalanced input anyway. It is not the signal ground, so I would expect it would make no difference. The results are similar with the electrically balanced output, except those should generally be left unconnected rather than grounded, if pin 3 is not to be used.

When people say they are "lifting" a ground sometimes they mean disconnecting it and sometimes they mean putting a resistor between signal ground and chassis/cable shield. Unbalanced circuits are commonly done with resistor-lifted signal grounds. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't. One possibility with that would be wire pins 2 and 3 to tip and sleeve, and only ground the shield at the (balanced) output on the other side. Rane has some pictures of this on their site, but I've not tried that myself.

Another option for a line-level send would be a transformer balanced output, although those are fairly rare. If the transformer was connected to pins 2 and 3, and pin 3 left unconnected at the other end, it wouldn't pass any audio. You would need to ground pin 3 to drive the unbalanced connection.

If somehow we are actually talking about mic lines rather than line level returns, then anything other than a balanced snake is going to be very unsatisfactory.

Hopefully that was confusing enough . . . :confused:
 
I was under the impression that if signal started balanced at one end and then unbalanced at the amp end that the shield in the cable would still help protect against certain types of inducted noise. .

it does to some degree... but the thing that makes the BIG difference is the balanced differential drive... check out a spec called common mode rejection ratio...
 
Thanks for the input! I will be using it for Mains & Monitors. Its a eight channel snake. I think I will check and see if it is balance by removing one of the xlrs. If it were balanced, How do i configure the wiring for TRS????
 
it does to some degree... but the thing that makes the BIG difference is the balanced differential drive... check out a spec called common mode rejection ratio...

I am aware of the differences, I purely meant that having the shield for the bulk of the run is still better than not having it at all.

As far as rewiring the cable, the standard is pin 2 on the xlr would be your hot or + signal, and would be the tip on a trs plug. Pin 3 would be minus or ring on the TRS, and pin 1 would be ground (foil or braded shield) and would connect to the sleeve of the TRS connector.
 
It's an unbalanced, 100 ft snake. It will work just fine for mains and monitors in a live situation. :cool:
 
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