10 hours of studio time...

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marcccc

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Can someone tell me what you can get done in 10 hours of a studio. Our band got 10 free hours of recording time in this studio in hollywood called Emuna. Anyway, we were debating what songs we should do and how many and so forth. My question is, what you usually get done in about 10 hours. I dont know exaclty what they (the studio) has there, but I'm pretty sure its up to todays standards of recording. We are a three piece rock band with not much complexity in our music. In other words our songs are short, simple and we are a small band. This is our first time in a "real studio" We have recorded our first cd in our lead singers lving room with a br-8 and came our ok, but nothing satisfying, so we have experienced a little with recording. What can I expect for a first time in the studio, on 10 hours of recording?
Thanks for anything,
-Marc:confused:
 
Wow...lucky break! You could potentially waste 10 hours in a studio, but if you ask questions in advance and be prepared, I bet you could get a good number of tunes on tape. It might help to have a producer to assist you. Someone with experience who you can rely on to make good decisions and won't waste your time.

Isaiah
 
It depends on what youre expetations are.

I suggest you rehearse your asses of playing together as a band.
Get as tight as you can playing together.
Make sure your instruments are in top shape before you go into the studio.
Make sure the song is well thought out way before you go in to record.
Record the band live and dont overdub unless needed.

Dont mess around in the studio and work focused and you can get 3-4 songs recorded well with a nice rough mix.
 
I've known of bands that have done like a full length album in 10 hours and also some that have gotten 1 song done in that time

If your whole band stays on the same instruments for all the songs, the drumset is not that big, etc... and you can do it all live in a couple takes, you could probably get a good 30 minutes on tape before you are out of there. Keep in mind that much of the time is set up (setting everything up in the room, miking all the instruments). If that only has to be done once in this session (i.e. none of you change instuments ) then you can just play through all of your songs (if you can do them well) in the amount of time that it takes to play the songs. Also mixing will be easy because the levels will be mostly the same for every song.

If by chance the vocals are complicated and will take a while to get right in the studion don't expect to get more than a couple songs done cause you NEED to make sure you leave enough time for vocals (people often don't realize the time that should be left to do these)

best of luck with it!
 
All the above are excellent posts and to the point.

I will play "producer" for you for free right here and suggest a few guidelines to maximize your time.

I will reiterate that you should practice your asses off and have your intruments in tip top shape before going in. Have a professional intonate the guitars and have fairly new drum heads on the drums. Buy some new guitar cables and make sure that your amps are in good shape. If ANYTHING is a bit off, get it fixed, or borrow something that IS in good shape.

Drum tuning is what is going to determine most whether you get good results or not!!! Be realistic! Most drummers DON'T have any clue how to tune their drums to go to tape well. Sorry, I have to say this because I have seen it far too many times. I am working with a drummer right now who recorded and toured with a major label signed band before joining this band and when I started working with them I had to go through and start tuning his drums. He was amazed how much better they sounded and so was the band. THIS IS A GUY THAT WAS ON A MAJOR LABEL!!! But when he was with the signed band, he had tech's who dealt with that stuff. Imagine that!!!

Anyway, I suggest that unless your drummer really knows how to tune drums (a rarity!) that he get a crash course in doing so. The studio engineer may or may not know how to tune drums and if he does, you are going to pay studio time for him to do so. Come in with the drums pretty close and have someone there that knows how to dial them in quickly and all will be well. I cannot stress enough how a great drum sound on tape will improve the overall quality of your recording. Usually, you would spend 10 hours dialing in drums in a major recording project. You don't have this option, so you need to come in with the best you can offer.

Okay, enough on drums....

Bass. MAKE SURE the bass in intonated. MAKE SURE that your bass player has good control with his pick or plucking fingers. MAKE SURE that the bass is capable of creating a sound that is appropriate to your bands sound. If you have all that going for you, getting the bass sound in the studio will only take less than 10 minutes!

Guitar. I have found that too many guitar players play with too much gain on their sound, and with too little midrange. If you cannot hear EVERY NOTE of the guitar while you are practicing live, you probably have a tone that is not very good. That is a fact that I have proven to guitar player and guitar player in the studio. I don't know your style or what kind of tone you are using right now, but if you remember that to get a good sound on tape that you usually need far less gain than you think, and having good midrange in the sound will give the best results, you will have little trouble in the studio. MAKE SURE that the guitar intonates well with the bass!!! Have the same guy intonate both intruments and make sure to play a little for the guy before he intonates so he can get an idea of how you play. This will help him do his work much better. Trust me on this one. If the luthier tries to tell you that your technique in playing won't guide how he works on the guitar and bass in setting it up, go somewhere else!!! He obviously doesn't understand the intrument well enough to be worth the price.

Vocals. If you have back up vocals, PRACTICE them!!! I find most backup singers are out of tune when they come into the studio. RECORD yourselves practicing vocals! Tune the vocal way up in the mix and LISTEN. If they make you cringe, something is wrong....:) Fix that BEFORE you try recording. For lead vocals, if you find that the meters on your br 8 are all over the place while you are tracking, you may need to start making some adjustments in how you present the singing to a microphone. Most inexperienced singers are overly dynamic.

For the session. Get a LOT of sleep the night before. 10 hours is going to be gruling! Eat pasta the night before because the energy it produces will pay off the next day. This is a trick distance runners use. Load up on pasta the day before. During the session, bring a friend along who will go get food or drinks during the day for you so none of the band members need to leave the studio to do this. Make sure to pack up all your gear and maybe even pack it in a van the night before so you don't have to exert that energy the day that you will be trying to track music! PREPARE as much as possible so your day goes smooth.

When you get to the studio, don't spend a bunch of time Ooooooing and Ahhhhhhing over the gear and rooms and stuff. Get you gear in and start setting up. I suggest that you record the drums bass and guitar at the same time. Ask the engineer what he feels is going to be the best setup in the room to do this. FOLLOW his advice. You don't have a bunch of time and if you present yourself as a professional to the engineer he will deal with you in a professional manner. At all costs, don't bother him with a whole slew of questions on small little things and come across as worrying about how stuff is going to turn out if you place your cable in one direction or another on the floor! :) Sweating the engineer is on the verge of being insulting to him. He is a professional (I will assume...;)) and probably knows what he is doing. Go about your business of setting up and getting ready to record and let him sweat the other stuff without interference. If you act like a dork, he will probably think you are a dork, you know what I mean? :)

Stay focused and don't do a lot of grab ass and fooling around in the studio. LISTEN to the engineer. If he suggests something, it would behove you to heed that advice. If this studio is in fact "up to date" as you mentioned, the engineer is probably pretty competent and knows how to get things done that will sound appropriate. If you guys are busy playing grab ass and talking insistently and arguing with him over sounds and what not he will probably become far less helpful in important things and will just sit around and wait for you to "okay" everything. If you are focused, well mannered, and trusting, he will work that much harder on your songs to achieve the best results.

It is okay to ask the engineer to suggest what you might change to help the sounds get better. If the engineer is experienced, he will be able to asses your talent and gear potential quite well and if you are cool and insistent about seeking his advice he will probably steer you in a good direction. LISTEN to what he has to say and ask him to clarify if you don't understand. Go about following his advice with an open mind even if you think it is crazy. He will probably impress you with his ideas more than you would think!

I suggest about 45 minutes to set up. You SHOULD be able to set up in 45 minutes! If you can't you are either lazy or have a setup that is too complicated.

I would spend about 1 or 2 hours on getting sound on the drums. The more the better. "Good enough" after 30 minutes is certainly NOT good enough. 2 hours is not enough time either but that is about all you can afford with only 10 hours total time to record and mix. Tell the engineer how much time you want to spend and make sure that the drummer stays focused and motivated during this whole time. Have a drum key ready. I forgot one thing above about drums. If the drummer has cymbals that are very low that are right over the toms you are going to have some problems in the studio. Cymbals that close to toms means that if you try to close mic the toms that the tome mics will pick up a lot of cymbal bleed. Also, it limits where the mic can be placed to mic the toms. I get the best drum sound froms drummers that play their cymbals at least 1' above any drum. Something to think about.

Spend about 15 minutes on getting a good bass sound. If your bass player as a good bass head with a direct output, bring it. I really wouldn't worry about bringing bass speakers as that requires a lot of time to set up and mic well. Go DI with a DI on the instrument and on from the bass amp. When the bass player is playing while working up a sound, don't have him playing funk bass riff unless he is going to be playing a funk song! God I hate that!!! When checking sounds, play YOUR songs. This way the engineer knows what is going to be played.

Guitar. I would recommend spending about 15-30 minutes on working up a good guitar sound. This is about all you can afford in time. The engineer may want to try a close mic and a room mic if he has a seperate room for the guitar amp and it is big enough for a room mic. Recording both is not a bad idea and the depth a room mic can offer cannot be replicated with reverb too well. If you are going to be going between a clean and dirty sound, it would be better to have two amps to do so, or two mics on the amp going to two different tracks. This will allow the engineer to have a track for the dirty sound and one for the clean sound and better level adjustment and eq can be applied. If you envision the dirty and clean parts overlapping during the transitions between them, you will need to track them seperately. Go for it if that is what you need to do. But, with so little time available, it might be better to try to avoid a lot of overdubbing. If you have a guitar solo, I would overdub that, especially if you want rythem guitar behind it.

Okay, your sound are now worked up. You have used between 2.5 and 3.5 hours to do so. Take a piss break and smoke a cigarette if that is what you do. DON'T get high! DON'T drink!! Drugs and quick recording do not mix. Stay FOCUSED!!!

I would recommend tracking three songs. Get in and play them. Spend about 10 minutes on getting the headphone mix good. You are now at between 3 and 4 hours and you are ready to track.

At this point, relax and play. Don't tighten up. Play the songs the way you rehearse them. Don't worry about making a mistake and you will be far less inclined to make one. If you DO make one on the bass or guitar, DON'T stop!!! If the drummer makes a big boo boo, STOP and start over.

If you cannot get the song in 3-5 takes, you didn't prepare. I WOULD not do any more than 5 takes. If you can afford the tape, record them all! If you think one of them sounded better than the others, go listen to it immediately and decide. ASK THE ENGINEER which he thought was best, but go with what you feel most comfortable with. If there was any gross bass or guitar mistakes, punch in and fix it. Move on.

If your songs are about 3 to 4 minutes, 3 takes of each song with one more listen to make sure you want to use a version, along with a few punch in's will take about around 1.5 hours to do. You now have used between 4.5 and 5 hours.

If you are going to overdub, do so. Again, 3-5 takes! If you can't get it right in that many times, you didn't prepare. Say another 30 minutes to overdub solos! You now have used 5 to 5.5 hours!

Get the vocalist in there. Three songs. Should take about 1 hour to track vocals. If there are back ups, record them along with the lead. Again, punch in on small mistakes.

You have now used between 6 and 6.5 hours.

Spend the rest of the time mixing. 3 songs, 3.5 to 4 hours to mix. I would spend the first two hours on the first song. The other two will go much quicker. During mix, work more on getting everything to gel together. Don't sweat a bunch of effects. Applying more than a reverb over the drums and possibly a tad on the guitar and a simple reverb and possibly a delay on the vocals starts getting very time consuming and you don't have time! Try to keep the reverbs short and ambient. Big lush reverbs will take much more time to dial in.

After you run your mix the way you "think" it shoud be, run one more with the vocals about 2 or 3 dB louder.

You at this point should have used up your 10 hours and should have a DAT or CDR of the three songs that sound pretty decent providing that all your source sound were good and everyone stayed focused.

You should inquire as to whether a one hour "lunch break" will count against your time. If it don't , take a hour break before you mix.

Ed
 
that was a post!

I've been in the same situation. What we did was bust 8 songs, laying down the drums (once miked), guitar, bass, and vocal simultaneously, as if live, doing 3-4 takes. Then for the primary four songs we went back and had the drummer retrack/fix the drums, then the same with the bass, then the same for me, then the vocalist.

Though, what I'd suggest is to just do 3-4 songs. We ran out of time and had to go back and had to compromise on some of the vocals. Mysteriously the vocals really become a bitch once you really get into it. Same with the drums. Once you start tweeking things, you have to make sure to go full bore or else the initial "live" recordings sound better!

I say plan on 3-4, have two more ready "just in case".
 
generally, I think sonusman's reply is pretty much on target.

a couple additional suggestions to sonusman's practical and reasonable schedule.

1. spend the first 5/10 minutes discussing this outline with the engineer...that way you'll all be on the same page. I would suspect that any decent engineer would intiate this conversation anyway. But....most likely, your engineer for this "prize" recording session will most likely be the only engineer (and/or owner)...or the 2nd engineer, who will also act as your tracking/mixing engineer, producer, person who tells you where the bathroom is, etc....

2. agreed on the silly questions.....like..skip 'em (such as, "you can fix that guitar/bass mistake in the mix...right??") yeah...you maybe can...but play it right in the first place...huh???

3. Possibly your 3 piece band can "kick ass" in a "live" situation, and you might think all you need is just an accurate *documentation* of what you do in on pass (take...ala no overdubs). yes....maybe no... But general CURRENT trends are, you can do more for your music audio quality by singing AFTER rhythm tracks, etc. Same for solos, etc. So....can you play your stuff without singing at the same time??(either as a reference or a guide to playing). If not, scratch vocals will be a necessity, and a whole 'nother post about going in that direction.

4. Just repeating....let your engineer/producer/butt wiper....be your tour guide to this session. Don't worry about the clock...a competent engineer with a well specified goal will do that for you.

5. Repeat...use sonusman's time frames...they are logical...accept no others....they are wrong!! (generally)

6. Have a KICK ASS, MUTHA F*CKIN', GOOD TIME!!!!!
 
Sonusman is spot on!

I haven't been in a studio for 7 years, but the last time I was, it was ugly.
We were trying to do a better demo than we could on our 8-track. We thought we were missing just a few little things.
Man, we were all f*%&ed up!
Sonusman is so right about the drums. We spent two freakin' hours tuning drums! We always thought they sounded fine, but what a difference in the clarity of the rythym with those babies tuned well.
And my setup sucked too. I had the gain on my Mesa/Boogie up to a minimum of 8 when I normally played...plus I used stomp boxes on top of that. I had the bass and treble at about 7 or 8 each, with the mids on about 3! I thought I was it! Then the engineer convinced me to lower the gain and bump up the mids. It sounded weird at first, but when I listened to the tune played back with the lower gain track...wow...I haven't been the same since. The guitar is a mid-ranged instrument...don't scoop the mids. And lower the gain if you don't want it to sound like mush.
We intended to record 4 songs, but only got one finished. But man did we learn a lot. That one polished tune got us more gigs than the 4 we had originally recorded on our 8-track.
Hey man...good luck to you.
 
Excellent posts

Also, I want to overemphasize the importance of being well rehearsed with your songs ahead of time. The studio is not a place to try new harmonies, experiment, or write new parts to songs (unless you have an unlimited budget). It is a place to record. Have your songs well practiced and you will be much more efficient in the studio.


Matt
 
cool post sonus. The biggest selling single I've ever recorded, a #1 worldwide (a bloody long time ago), was recorded, mixed and mastered in a little under 2 hours.

The best way to do a lot in little time is to go back to the "old" way of doing things - rehearse your asses off until everything is as tight as a duck's ass (watertight!), get into the studio, and play live. What does it take? WORK REHEARSE WORK

By the way - PLEASE visit my post in the cave "Pete Bardens seriously ill" I need you guys to help.
 
Wow! Thanks Sonusman. We recently got a new drummer and plan to go into the studio shortly. It's hard to beleive, but he is a perfectionist when it comes to tuning his drums. I'm glad to see we picked the right guy.

Secondly, I like what you said about the mid-range on the guitars. I'm the guitarist, and I always wondered if the midrange should be turned up higher. I think it sounds better that way too.

But I'm curious, what does "intonate" mean, and why can't I do it myself. Why do the bass and guitar need to be "intonated" before recording.

Can somebody help me out?

Thanks.
 
Setting the intonation is the process of adjusting the string lengths so that each note along the same string is in tune along the fretboard.

To adjust the intonation of your instrument, compare the 12th fret harmonic with the 12th fret fretted note, either by ear or by tuner. Both should be the exact same note. If they are off, move the bridge or bridge saddles closer or farther from the neck of the instrument until the notes are in tune. For example, if the fretted note is flat compared to the harmonic, the string length from the 12th fret to the bridge is too long and the bridge saddle must be moved closer to the neck.


Matt
 
BBB is correct about intonation. Great tuning in the studio = much sweeter sound. PERIOD!!!

I don't not agree though that you should attempt to intonate an intrument by ear. Been there, done that, didn't work. In fact, it was a mess. The human brains ability to "get used" to a sound that is a bit out of pitch is incredible. The longer you work towards it, the worse it would get. Anyway. I have found that intonating with a strobe tuner produces the best results.

Ed
 
BBB said:

Setting the intonation is the process of adjusting the string lengths so that each note along the same string is in tune along the fretboard.

To adjust the intonation of your instrument, compare the 12th fret harmonic with the 12th fret fretted note, either by ear or by tuner. Both should be the exact same note. If they are off, move the bridge or bridge saddles closer or farther from the neck of the instrument until the notes are in tune. For example, if the fretted note is flat compared to the harmonic, the string length from the 12th fret to the bridge is too long and the bridge saddle must be moved closer to the neck.


Matt

OK, keep in mind that I'm an idiot and I just started learning guitar, but could you explain this in a little simpler terms? Is this something better left to a luthier or is this something I can do with a tuner and some patience?

Thanks
 
It's easy to do with a tuner and some patience.

Tune the guitar with the tuner as close to perfect as you can get it.
When you fret the twelfth (or 24th) fret it should be the same note as the open string only an octave (or 2) higher, if it isn't it means that the string length from the 12th fret to the bridge is wrong, if it is sharp it means that the string is too short, if it's flat it means that the string is too long.

Almost all electric guitars have a way that the bridge saddles can be moved, on strats it's just a screw that when tightened pulls the saddle back and when loosened lets it go forward.
 
Heres what I would do in ADDITION to everything mentioned, based on experience...
This is the way I think, and this is smart... find out what the studio books per hour, for example, lets say $40 an hour... thats $400 for 10 hours. Get your bandmates and yourself to split that amount of money however many ways, and buy yourself a 2nd day. Thats TWO days in the studio for the price of one. More time to set up drums, more time to track, more time for for precious layering. The 2nd day is always smoother than the 1st (usually). If you dont buy an extra day, you are nuts. Then devote at least half of the second day getting the best mix possible. You can spend 10 hours just MIXING a song sometimes. Get the second day. Besides, that turns into twice the experience. Also, spend the time between 1st and second day reviewing the song... sometimes something cool you never thought of pops up when you hear the rough mixes (that you take WITH YOU TO LISTEN TO THAT NIGHT) already sound fantastic and it sparks creativity cause it almost sounds like a new song.
2nd... while setting up your equipment, inquire as to what equipment the studio has. Sometimes an old vox hanging around will totally destroy the clean sound that YOUR amp has. Go for the vox. If they have, say, a Marshall 900 head, and you have a Mesa... by all means, track left with the Mesa and right with the Marshall. Add as many colors as you can.
3rd) You wouldn't believe how grueling it gets playing a song that you've already played 2,000 times 8 times in a row. To top it off, when you go back and layer stuff, you're gonna play it anywhere from 2 to 10 more times. Then you're gonna listen to it a few times. Then you're gonna hear it at least a million more times during mixdown. Be prepared for this, it is cumbersome and makes you almost dislike your own music. By be prepared, I mean mentally be ready to give your best performance everytime. You;d be surprised how performance gets crappy when you are tired of playing the song.
As an example, go get a CD, find any random song, and listen to it 10 times repeatedly. Torture. Now try that about 30 times and you get the picture.
4th) Kinda keep the talk down and let the engineer do his job, but DO ask smart questions. You can learn a ton if the engineer is cool. Keep an eye on what he does during mixdown and what kind of EQ and effects he uses, and TAKE NOTES on them. This will help you by:
1) You can attempt to recreate some of the things live
2) You can learn to do some of it yourself at the home studio
3) If the guy is real good at carving space, you, of course, will post mp3's of everything and tell us what he did to make everything fit real nice!!!
4) You can post everything you learned on this site and maybe help us the way we are helping you!!! ;)
Peace,
Paul
 
buying a 2nd day, isn't such a bad idea.....BUT....that's exactly why the studio *donated* its free time in the first place..

...oh and extra CD copies at $5, plus..gotta redo that lead vocal on song 2, hey..."we got a good recording....we need to go back.".....etc, etc

you studio owners hear this???
 
vox said:
It's easy to do with a tuner and some patience.

Tune the guitar with the tuner as close to perfect as you can get it.
When you fret the twelfth (or 24th) fret it should be the same note as the open string only an octave (or 2) higher, if it isn't it means that the string length from the 12th fret to the bridge is wrong, if it is sharp it means that the string is too short, if it's flat it means that the string is too long.

Almost all electric guitars have a way that the bridge saddles can be moved, on strats it's just a screw that when tightened pulls the saddle back and when loosened lets it go forward.

Ahhhh, OK, that's much cleared for a simpleton like myself, thanks man. I always wondered what my Tune-o-matic bridge was for! Hehe...

Another dumb question here: there's no similar bridge adjustment on (most) acoustic guitars (I think I've seen it on a few), so is is just not needed or is this where Mr. Luthier comes in and dicks around with the truss rod and all that?
 
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