1/4" ATR MasterTape is here

[Beck]

Did Quantegy actually buy out the 3M tape formulations and equipment? I never heard of it. I don't recall Quantegy ever making any 3M formulations.

Cheers,

Otto

Quantegy started by spinning off from Ampex in 1995. They then acquired the 3M magnetic tape division in 1996. The 3M film and data storage divisions became Imation. Quantegy’s GP9 introduced in the fall of ’98 was based on a combination of an improved 3M 996 as well as elements from 499. Other 3M inspired tapes…

408... part 3M 808 and part Ampex 406 with an improved binder
480 … elements of Ampex 478 and 3M 908
8206 logging tape (used to be 3M 8206)

The plastic snap-open setup box Quantegy used was also a 3M design.

Most of the 3M technology was quietly incorporated by tweaking existing Ampex model numbers.

http://www.thembj.org/mbdb/3m-basf-sell-magnetic-tape-divisions

 

[ofajen]

Quantegy started by spinning off from Ampex in 1995. They then acquired the 3M magnetic tape division in 1996. The 3M film and data storage divisions became Imation. Quantegy’s GP9 introduced in the fall of ’98 was based on a combination of an improved 3M 996 as well as elements from 499.

I should have made the connection. We were discussing tape formulations a few years back on the Ampex list and someone referred to GP9 as 996 cooked in a new kitchen. Thanks!

Otto

 

[ofajen]

I should have made the connection. We were discussing tape formulations a few years back on the Ampex list and someone referred to GP9 as 996 cooked in a new kitchen.

I should probably never post here when I have the flu. My memory seems to be impaired. Thanks, again!

Cheers,

Otto

 

[Beck]

Not to worry... I've posted with a fever of over 102 F before. You can probably go back and figure out which posts those were.

And I'm sure someone is thinking, "Gee Tim, how long did you have that fever?"

Hope you feel better soon, by the way.

 

[jjones1700]

Okay, I've got the question that everyone is really thinking.................if a 3rd major player comes into the tape market...................who the hell is going to start putting out new decks?!?!?!?

 

[N7SC]

Okay, I've got the question that everyone is really thinking.................if a 3rd major player comes into the tape market...................who the hell is going to start putting out new decks?!?!?!?

Now, that is an interesting question to ponder. It brings to mind an old saw from aviation: How do you make a small fortune in aviation? Answer: Start out with a large one! I think you see the possible relation to manufacturing decks again. But I don't think the outlook is without a ray of hope. Read on.

Where the demand is perceived, someone usually fills it: While the numbers of companies manufacturing turntables is shrinking, McIntosh Labs has brought out a new, very high-end, turntable. No doubt for a breathtaking price.

Most of the companies that produced the majority of the decks we all love, Pioneer, Teac, Sony, even Revox/Studer were, to varying degrees, concerned about the price of their products. None of them ever catered to a cost-be-damned clientele. None of these companies have changed much, if any, in that respect. Thus I don't look to any of them to re-introduce decks anytime soon. Unless the demand begins to rise again. And that is where the glimmer of hope begins to shine.

Over the past few years I have noticed that no one who was hanging on to analog has dropped it and, for lack of a better expression, "gone digital." In fact it seems that I am meeting more and more people who are at least unwilling to give up analog, whether it be vinyl or tape, some who are turning back to analog, and even some youth who are discovering the incredible, real and full sound of analog for the first time.

Somehow, someway, there seems to be a small quiet return to analog beginning to happen, and maybe all we need to do is gently fan the flames and help it grow. Maybe, then we'll see new decks arriving. And, just imagine the level of their performance with the technology that has been developed in the past 20 years, roughly since the last decks were designed! They'd blow digital right out of the way. The only downside I can see is that, at least in the beginning, any new decks are not going to be as "affordable" as they were back in the old stereo era. Not that the better ones were ever really "affordable" by most of us.

 

[Beck]

Okay, I've got the question that everyone is really thinking.................if a 3rd major player comes into the tape market...................who the hell is going to start putting out new decks?!?!?!?

That’s the catch with analog… if well cared for, the machines can last forever. For most people it’s more cost effective to buy a used machine and refurbish it, so any tape deck manufacturer that tries to re-enter the market is going to be competing against their own legacy machines.

Just an example… my Tascam TSR-8 was made in 1989. Most of the vital parts, including the heads, are still available new from Tascam. It’s just now approaching time for its first relap, which would be about $60.00, or I could buy a new rec/play head. Over the life of the machine I’ve had to replace the rubber pinch roller ($29.00), the reel clampers ($13.00 each) and the capstan drive belt ($8.00) one time each. I’ve had to perform an extensive calibration once after a few years, with subsequent calibration consisting of minor tweaking… the last time three years ago and counting. I check it once a year, but it takes a long time to drift in a private studio exclusively for my own use, which is typical for a home studio environment. You’ve got to keep them clean for this sort of performance, but routine cleaning and degaussing can be done in the time it takes Window XP to fully boot up.

My Alesis ADAT had the lifespan of a VCR… long gone. An assortment of Ataris, Macs and PCs going back to the same time period are long gone as well, due to failure or just plain obsolete… no longer supported by anyone.

Analog defiantly wins the total cost of ownership award for the long run, but that longevity also makes it difficult for tape deck manufacturers to remain viable in this smaller market. For folks with a lot of money to throw around ATR Services is the closest thing to buying new, and Otrai is still making some models by special order on a limited basis. It costs a lot less to buy used… pennies on the dollar.

The only hope for manufacturers of new machines to ramp up on a larger scale is if eBay sellers eventually manage to destroy all the existing analog decks one-by-one through shipping. That could happen.

 

[N7SC]

Tim Beck's post brings up a very interesting line of thought: What we dedicated analogists are up against is more than the simple change from one type of recording technology to another. We are up against a very fundamental change in the nature of society and business/marketing. It is very, very hard to find anyone anymore who believes in investing in something, anything, that is made and designed to last a long time. Everything is viewed as disposable and with a limited lifespan. Furthermore, quality of performance at whatever the gadget does is of almost no concern at all.

It is a major paradigm shift in the market place that is eroding common sense, and ultimately enslaving the pubic to an endless cycle of buying junk only to have to replace it very quickly. The concept of buying quality and keeping it, thus saving money in the long run is quickly being lost to the public.

We need direct our thanks for this disgusting change in society to the computer and software companies as well as to the utter stupidity of the public for going along with it. After all, the first place that most people were "trained" to go along with the syndrome of short-loved products that had to be "upgraded" frequently was with their PCs, Macs or what ever. The amount of money that has been bilked from the pubic by these companies is mind boggling. And, there is no reason, aside from civic duty, for these companies to stop.

Sorry if I sound pissed and got off on a rant, but the changes to our society in the last 40 years upset me greatly, and the change from analog electronics where it was appropriate to f***ing digital EVERYWHERE (digital toilet paper anyone? I'm surprised it hasn't been developed yet) is one good example of it.

 

[N7SC]

Hate to hijack my own thread, but it has already spun off and taken on a life of its own, so . . .

Maybe toilet paper is really the ultimate digital product: you must use exactly the units that are defined by the manufacturer and can't just randomly tear it off. This sort of corresponds to digitally encoded binary represantations of voltage versus actual continuous analog voltage variations. Second, you use it once and then throw it out, so thus must buy more. Third, it is a necessity, so you have to buy it. Fourth (and this makes it ultimate digital product), the manufacturers don't have to invest in any real research and development to upgrade it because of reason three.

 

[cjacek]

The only hope for manufacturers of new machines to ramp up on a larger scale is if eBay sellers eventually manage to destroy all the existing analog decks one-by-one through shipping.

Ha! I was just gonna mention that very point and I'm glad that you've brought it up. That's a valid argument and one which could indeed tilt the balance toward new decks.

BTW, very interesting take on things from Beck and N7SC. Good posts.

--------

 

[jjones1700]

I can understand the point of a new manufacturer having to compete against the remaining older decks. On the other hand, Tascam is an awesome company for supporting their out of date products for so long. That's what would convince me to buy a new deck from them if they had one. A) It's would be new, B) It would have a warranty, and C) parts would DEFINITELY be readily available vs. having to search for "lightly used" parts on ebay.

If I used my deck heavily, I could probably justify letting go of about $3000 to $3500 for a top of the line 1/4" deck. My RT-909s (I have 3) aren't going to last forever, even though they were built well. I had thought about buying the latest version of the Otari 5050, but it doesn't have a closed-loop transport system that I have fallen in love with. Now if Technics put out the RS series decks again...............I fear my first born would have to go.........

As far as the whole digital vs. analog argument, this is how I see it:

Analog is similar to wood. Digital is similar to steel. Wood isn't perfect and has it's own characteristics, but it's a joy to work with. Steel can be precision machined but doesn't differ from the piece next to it. Catch what I'm saying?

I like my house built out of wood.

I agree that there is a slow resurgence of analog. I've had a bunch of people ask me around my part of town if I had an analog recording studio. If I get many people asking, I might try to put one together and see what happens. I'd LOVE to get my hands on a TSR-8.