1/2" Quantegy Inverted (Brown Oxide out)

[LUNE]

I got this 10" reel of (perhaps...) Quantegy 499 with my Tascam 38 from someone who knew nothing about either (he inherited it all from his dad).



By what process, reason or mistake would the tape have ended up shiny-brown-oxide-out on the reel? Is there an easy way for me to tell if its really 499? and perhaps most importantly, whats the best way for me to get it right way 'round to make it usable?

The machine also came with 2 empty reels (the original Tascam takeup reel and an empty 456) as well as a sealed 456 tape.

I'm still relatively new to tape, and I can't think of any reason or easy way it got like that. Any one have any ideas what happened here?

 

[jpmorris]

That is weird. There were some very early machines which had the heads the other way up, but AFAIK none of them used 1/2" tape. I suspect they were transferring the tape from a hub or another reel or something and buggered it up.

Oh yeah, it can happen if the tape got twisted over in the transfer. That's not particularly easy to do, but I have done it before now

I think 499 is very slightly darker, but it's difficult to tell. Best way is to record on a stretch of it and see what happens to the signal level on a machine calibrated for 456. IIRC it comes up a couple of DB higher on playback than on recording.

 

[jpmorris]

On another note, this is how I would handle the reversing.

I'm including two diagrams, based off the TASCAM TSR-8 layout. Unless you've got an MTR-90 or similar machine this ought to work.

'Normal' is how the machine is normally threaded.

'Inverse' is what you'd do if you wanted to flip the tape over. BE CAREFUL WHEN DOING THIS.

On the TSR-8 and other TASCAM machines, you'll need to hold the right-hand tension roller upwards so that the capstan starts, otherwise the machine will believe there is no tape on it and will not operate (sensibly enough). Once that's done, you should be able to hit 'FAST FORWARD' and spool it across. Note that a TSR-8 will panic at this point because it isn't getting a tach signal. Releasing the tension arm will halt it but be careful as you may end up with tape all over the floor. I almost did when trying it just now - I had to brake the thing by hand.

 

[jjones1700]

I was trying to figure out a way to do reverse the tape but I couldn't figure it out since the 38 and TSR-8 have the head blocks in the way when you would try to run the tape from the bottom of the reels. Never would have thought of running from top to bottom.

 

[jpmorris]

I was trying to figure out a way to do reverse the tape but I couldn't figure it out since the 38 and TSR-8 have the head blocks in the way when you would try to run the tape from the bottom of the reels. Never would have thought of running from top to bottom.

Heh. I used to spool hubs onto empty reels bit like that to avoid wearing the rest of the transport. Obviously I transferred them the right way up
The tape pack isn't very good if you do this, though. Nowadays I just assemble the flanges onto the hub.

 

[Beck]

Yeah, how JP shows it in the second pic will work. You may have to apply finger pressure on the supply reel to prevent the tape from spilling. Once you get the tape spooled with the correct side up you should then transfer it again back to the original 499 reel normally as in JP’s first pic at play speed for a nice library wind.

As for telling whether you have 499 on that reel… it smells different than 456. Take a whiff of the un-opened 456 and compare. And as JP mentioned already if the machine is setup for 456, a tone recorded at 0 VU on 499 will play back a couple dB higher on the meter. Let’s hope it’s still calibrated for 456.

I’m not a big fan of 499, but it has one thing going for it… no sticky-shed. Even the oldest Ampex branded 499 is free of sticky-shed.

By what process, reason or mistake would the tape have ended up shiny-brown-oxide-out on the reel?

 

[jjones1700]

Ah, JD. My weakness.

 

[LUNE]

Winding tape without transport wear

Hey Tape Wolf, thanks for the pictures! - this wouldn't have been my first thought though it makes a kind of sense - its great these machines can spin around so many different ways!

so I got the tape good way 'round. and had a fun time trying to wind the tape top to top (didn't work, lots of tape spooled onto the ground...)

it smells similar to the other 456 (though not of the same 'strength') I almost had a simile to describe the scent, but I guess there's nothing like it...- the color is similar though more shinny, and it reacts the same as the (previously) sealed 456 - ie: same signal on input & repro head (roughly anyway, I've not calibrated the machine **I'll get there some day!** though I've recorded sine waves on the outer channels and don't see any phase cancellation)

so, I'm concluding its actually 456 that was wound on to the 499 reel.

about the talk on winding tape avoiding wear on transport:
"heh. I used to spool hubs onto empty reels bit like that to avoid wearing the rest of the transport. Obviously I transferred them the right way up
The tape pack isn't very good if you do this, though. Nowadays I just assemble the flanges onto the hub. "

I'm not sure I understand either of these methods - how would one spool the tape similar to the 'inverted' method without it getting inverted? and "just assemble the flanges onto the hub. " - I'm not understanding this process as a means to RW or FF tape avoiding transport wear. I'd be very interested to hear about easy ways to wind the tape without it going over the shaft guide or the tape 'lifters'. with 7" reels on the 34 you can just bypass all this, but it gets in the way on the 10" reels...

 

[jjones1700]

about the talk on winding tape avoiding wear on transport:
"heh. I used to spool hubs onto empty reels bit like that to avoid wearing the rest of the transport. Obviously I transferred them the right way up
The tape pack isn't very good if you do this, though. Nowadays I just assemble the flanges onto the hub. "

I'm not sure I understand either of these methods - how would one spool the tape similar to the 'inverted' method without it getting inverted? and "just assemble the flanges onto the hub. " - I'm not understanding this process as a means to RW or FF tape avoiding transport wear. I'd be very interested to hear about easy ways to wind the tape without it going over the shaft guide or the tape 'lifters'. with 7" reels on the 34 you can just bypass all this, but it gets in the way on the 10" reels...

When you buy a "pancake" of tape, it is simply tape wound onto a plastic hub, no flanges. Let me clarify. The metal pieces on the sides of the reel (usually has a tape manufacturer/type of tape sticker on it, like the 499 sticker in your photo) are what is know as flanges. You'll see they are held together with 3 screws. The part you wind them on to (where you have to hold the tape when you do the initial winding when loading the tape) is the hub. It is easier, if you buy pancakes (especially if you order a box of 10), to simply order the flanges and screw kits and assemble a reel vs. trying to mount the pancake on the deck and doing a play or ffwd onto a blank, assembled reel. I've done both, and I prefer to just screw a new set of flanges to the pancake hub and call it done. YMMV.

 

[jpmorris]

I'm not sure I understand either of these methods - how would one spool the tape similar to the 'inverted' method without it getting inverted?

I'm attaching a diagram of what I used to do. Again, I don't strictly recommend this as the tape will pack unevenly and the control software really, really hates it when it doesn't have a tach signal from the counter roller. But it might be useful in some circumstances.

I think Jjones covered the pancake hub thing well enough. If not, I don't actually have any tape in pancake form so I can't photograph it.

 

[sweetbeats]

There were some vintage decks that ran oxide out...I believe the Ampex 200 series is one of them, but that's going back 60 years or so...

 

[LUNE]

When you buy a "pancake" of tape, it is simply tape wound onto a plastic hub, no flanges. Let me clarify. The metal pieces on the sides of the reel (usually has a tape manufacturer/type of tape sticker on it, like the 499 sticker in your photo) are what is know as flanges. You'll see they are held together with 3 screws. The part you wind them on to (where you have to hold the tape when you do the initial winding when loading the tape) is the hub. It is easier, if you buy pancakes (especially if you order a box of 10), to simply order the flanges and screw kits and assemble a reel vs. trying to mount the pancake on the deck and doing a play or ffwd onto a blank, assembled reel. I've done both, and I prefer to just screw a new set of flanges to the pancake hub and call it done. YMMV.

Thanks for the elucidation on this (I'm sure it will help someone, somewhere ) - now I understand he was just talking about dealing with pancakes (a common occurrence of needing to spool tape) NOT spooling tape in general, I guess my mind was still on the actual FF/RW of tape bypassing the transport (shaft guide etc). -and my apologizes for not being clear about what I wasn't understanding- I guess I'm thinking that when you're recording a song at the beginning of a tape and storing it tail-out, well, there's a lot of (maybe unnecessary) wear on the transport. but if there's no "trick" that works for 10" reels on Tascam 34/38 decks to bypass all the tape transport and if it packs uneven anyway, I'll stop looking for novelty and get on with winding my tape the old fashioned way... (on the 10" reels anyway. )

I'm attaching a diagram of what I used to do. Again, I don't strictly recommend this as the tape will pack unevenly and the control software really, really hates it when it doesn't have a tach signal from the counter roller. But it might be useful in some circumstances.

Thanks once again for the great diagrams. This works for 7" reels on both my 34 and A-3200SD, (they don't seem to care about a signal from the counter roller) but would seem pretty awkward with 10" reels (on the 34 or 38) - I tried it just now on the 38, and it does actually wind, but the tape is pressing on the plastic corner of the head assembly enclosure - not making me feel very confident in doing much of this - and you're right about the uneven packing... (but maybe its not a big deal having the tape pass over the plastic on the head housing assembly(?)) (edit: looking at photos of the TSR-8, I think there is room so the tape would not touch the plastic head assembly enclosure on the that deck)

so the consensus is to run it through the transport, have it pack it nice and let the shaft guide et al take the wear?