Up for a new amp...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Monkey Allen
  • Start date Start date
Monkey Allen said:
I think my Champ might be suffering from a ground problem. As can be imagined, it's in my very modest home studio...along with:

PC tower
PC monitor
3 monitor speakers
RME Fireface
Room light
Air con
Multiple preamps, eq's and comps
Pedals

So there's a lot of things plugged in. I took it out to the kitchen and plugged it in and the noise from the Champ didn't strike me as problematic in any way. Just normal levels of hum/ hiss/ noise. The noise is clearly worse in my little studio. And that noise is compounded of course when a mike is on the grill. I could back the mike off a bit. I could also try using a big extension lead to plug the amp in from a different part of the house.
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As far as the Champ is concerned - that's the first test: assuming you have reason to believe that your house wiring and grounding is good and squared away - try the champ by itself (with humbuckers if possible) in a distant outlet in another part of the house.
 
Monkey Allen said:
I think my Champ might be suffering from a ground problem. As can be imagined, it's in my very modest home studio...along with:

PC tower
PC monitor
3 monitor speakers
RME Fireface
Room light
Air con
Multiple preamps, eq's and comps
Pedals

So there's a lot of things plugged in. I took it out to the kitchen and plugged it in and the noise from the Champ didn't strike me as problematic in any way. Just normal levels of hum/ hiss/ noise. The noise is clearly worse in my little studio. And that noise is compounded of course when a mike is on the grill. I could back the mike off a bit. I could also try using a big extension lead to plug the amp in from a different part of the house.
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Not arguing against the idea of some grounding issue but what you describe sounds pretty normal.
There are numerous sources of interference in your studio and, most likely, far fewer in the kitchen.

To prove you can either walk around pointing the guitar (pickups) at stuff using it as a detector,
or systematically turn things off noting any impact that has on your noise.
 
I would accuse the air-con, not the amp. Try turning it off.
In fact turn all your stuff off except the amp.
Then switch them on one at a time to find the culprit.
 
The longevity thing comes up often but while if you have the skills and tools to fix kit with discrete components fixing a 50 year old amp is great and doable. However if you need to pay somebody to fix it for you at real cost if it’s not a twenty minute you start to see the resale value of a good one eaten away. The minute you look at any age equipment with custom chips you can’t fix them. The question is about what it does for you now. I’m currently scrapping some really good but old gear. Perfect working order but I can’t even give it away. Nobody wants it as its workhorse not classic. I don’t have an AC30 but I have a Laney of similar style and vintage. Worth nothing. I have Line 6 clever guitar and the floor controller but rarely plug it in. If you want something and can afford it, buy it and forget repairs and resale in ten years time. That’s a decision for then
 
Yeah, the longevity thing of tube amps sounds great, but I have a Guild Thunderbird amp from the mid 60s. It's 100% ORIGINAL except for the 2 power tubes which were replaced once in the 70s. I think it cost me $360 when I bought it.

It worked the last I fired it up, about a dozen years ago, but with all original 60 yr old caps, I am a bit hesitant to do that now. While it can certainly be recapped, the cost was CRAZY high unless I want to do some major rewiring. It has quite a few multi value can caps, and they aren't common values. I can upgrade the 80/80uF 450 cap to 100/100 500V for $42. The 40/40/40/40uF 400V cap can be changed 40/40/40/40 525V cap for another $42. A pair of 250uF 275V cans will have to be 250uF 500V cans at $18 each. A pair of TungSol 7591a tubes will be $105. We're well over $200 for parts and there are still several other electrolytics that are just axial caps, not can caps. The preamp tubes are basic 12AX7s, except the reverb driver which is a 6GW8. It's probably ok but a replacment is $60.

That doesn't include any labor if I take it to a tech. I can see a rebuild costing $400 to $500. Would it be worth it? There are a couple on Reverb, one at $1100 and another at $700, but they have been listed for a year or so. I'm thinking it might bring $500 to actually sell it. The amp weighs in at over 85lbs so I'll never carry it up the steps myself. It would have to be a local sale. You wouldn't want to ship it.

If I decide to restore it, it will be strictly for sentimental reasons. It was my first real amp, and was used a lot from about '68 to '80. I still have the guitar as well.


Guilds.webp
 
jimistone said:
I'm lucky as far as an amp tech goes. One of the best I've ever dealt with keeps my amp serviced. He only charges $25 labor (total, not per hour) plus his cost on parts.
He just loves to work on those old tube amps.
That's the kind of guy you want if you can find him
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These kinds of guitar/ amp techs don't exist in Australia. Here, everyone savagely gouges you.
 
rob aylestone said:
The longevity thing comes up often but while if you have the skills and tools to fix kit with discrete components fixing a 50 year old amp is great and doable. However if you need to pay somebody to fix it for you at real cost if it’s not a twenty minute you start to see the resale value of a good one eaten away. The minute you look at any age equipment with custom chips you can’t fix them. The question is about what it does for you now. I’m currently scrapping some really good but old gear. Perfect working order but I can’t even give it away. Nobody wants it as its workhorse not classic. I don’t have an AC30 but I have a Laney of similar style and vintage. Worth nothing. I have Line 6 clever guitar and the floor controller but rarely plug it in. If you want something and can afford it, buy it and forget repairs and resale in ten years time. That’s a decision for then
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One other thing about my tube Champ is that I can't even really crank it to "tube breakup". Anything above 3 on the amp is just too loud. That was one of the reasons I was thinking about a Tonemaster. Nice to have slightly older tube amps but, yeah you need to be able to give them some vol. The Super Champ x2 has long been discontinued too and it's a hybrid setup...it has tube and modelling. The modelling is pretty lousy I think. I have only ever used the clean tube side.
 
TalismanRich said:
That doesn't include any labor if I take it to a tech. I can see a rebuild costing $400 to $500. Would it be worth it? There are a couple on Reverb, one at $1100 and another at $700, but they have been listed for a year or so. I'm thinking it might bring $500 to actually sell it. The amp weighs in at over 85lbs so I'll never carry it up the steps myself. It would have to be a local sale. You wouldn't want to ship it.
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Yeah I hear that. In Australia the cost of repairs or restoring amps would be incredibly high. I'm not economically minded enough to know if it's just because we are so far away from the rest of the world or any of a million other economic factors, but prices are steep here. A Tonemaster Delux Reverb costs a huge $1399 Australian dollars here. In my book that's a massive chunk of money. For that money the thing would want to be very, very reliable.
 
Monkey Allen said:
One other thing about my tube Champ is that I can't even really crank it to "tube breakup". Anything above 3 on the amp is just too loud. That was one of the reasons I was thinking about a Tonemaster. Nice to have slightly older tube amps but, yeah you need to be able to give them some vol. The Super Champ x2 has long been discontinued too and it's a hybrid setup...it has tube and modelling. The modelling is pretty lousy I think. I have only ever used the clean tube side.
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I can't crank my pro reverb up to that point either. Get you a good overdrive pedal. I recommend a boss blues driver. That's what I'm using and I love it.
 
jimistone said:
Owning and using vintage fender tube amps is hard if you don't have a good tube amp tech.
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You bet. Here in Australia over the years I've become familiar with many guitar techs. They all charge like wounded bulls. That's why I ruled a line through them all and started learning myself 10 years ago and doing my own guitar work. I've made one or two trips to guitar techs since and they are simply robbers. Hate to say it, but that's how it is.
 
jimistone said:
I can't crank my pro reverb up to that point either. Get you a good overdrive pedal. I recommend a boss blues driver. That's what I'm using and I love it.
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I might just have to settle for using my Katana 50mkii. There's a setting in the PC software called NS that suppresses noise. Flick that setting and all hiss and hum disappears. You're left with a clean amp that takes pedals well. I can't be bothered diving into a million settings dialing in whatever tone I want via a usb into my PC connected to the amp. I have 2 dist pedals, a delay, fuzz and eq. Those going into a clean amp are all I need. So maybe just stick with the katana.
 
There's a big difference in the exchange rate between US and Australia. Today's rate is $1 US - $1.59 Aus. So your $1399 Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb would be $880 US, except that it is actually $1079 in the US. You're getting it for a STEAL!
 
Monkey Allen said:
You bet. Here in Australia over the years I've become familiar with many guitar techs. They all charge like wounded bulls. That's why I ruled a line through them all and started learning myself 10 years ago and doing my own guitar work. I've made one or two trips to guitar techs since and they are simply robbers. Hate to say it, but that's how it is.
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They will break one off in you here too. I just lucked out. The tech who I use was in a band with me years ago. He ran a lamp factory for years and was always an ace at fixing electronics. He married a wealth lady and is retired. He dosen't really care about making any money...he just loves working on old fender and marshall amps.
Flat labor fee of $25 and that's no matter how long he works on it. He shows you the invoices on the parts he ordered and that's what you pay...his cost.
I would be paying through the nose for what he has been doing under normal circumstances
 
TalismanRich said:
There's a big difference in the exchange rate between US and Australia. Today's rate is $1 US - $1.59 Aus. So your $1399 Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb would be $880 US, except that it is actually $1079 in the US. You're getting it for a STEAL!
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All I'm saying is $1399AUD is a LOT of money.
 
jimistone said:
They will break one off in you here too. I just lucked out. The tech who I use was in a band with me years ago. He ran a lamp factory for years and was always an ace at fixing electronics. He married a wealth lady and is retired. He dosen't really care about making any money...he just loves working on old fender and marshall amps.
Flat labor fee of $25 and that's no matter how long he works on it. He shows you the invoices on the parts he ordered and that's what you pay...his cost.
I would be paying through the nose for what he has been doing under normal circumstances
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Awesome. These kinds of arrangements...who you know...are great.
 
Rich mentioned capacitors. Im involved in a heritage collection of lighting gear and a few weeks back it was a dimmer day. We have lots of dimmer packs from the 70s through to about 2010. Every single one went bang when powered up. Lots were already dead. Some lit up and looked hopeful, then went bang after a few minutes. Other lit up and went seriously bag in seconds, often with smoke and disgusting smell. The point of heritage is originality, so repairing them actually detracts from their condition. We are fixing some, but need to keep some in their non-working state for history.

With audio, it seems you can fix them and use them, but the fixing also detracts from the value. So use or retain unworking? Like those gibson bridges that mean original condition and mega money, or with a new bridge that plays in tune but drops the price?
 
You could argue that powering them all on knowing that they're probably going to go bang would detract from their condition. :ROFLMAO:
 
You have to decide if you are an amp collector/investor or a working musician.
Example:
I bought a 1966 fender strat in 1976 for $150. I was laughed at by my musician friends at the time. (It was a "post CBS" and would nevet be worth squat)
Anyway, the trembar broke off in the block..I replaced and didn't keep the original.
Refinished it....
Put a 5 way switch in it....
Replaced the volume pot....
Replaced one of the saddles that was seized with rust....
Put a set of of pickups in it and let one of the original get away from me....
And probably some other shit I forgot about.
It's true that all this devalued the guitar and even though I re-refinished it in a proper lake placid blue nitro laquar paint job that's beautiful, it's probably a $4k to 5k guitar now instead of $12k guitar.
But, I sat down one time and estimated the money I made doing all the gigs I did with that strat. Ball park is that I have made over $100k with it by playing the shit out of it for 48 years.
If I had slid it under the bed and never played it or touched it....it would be worth $6k more to a collector than in it's current state.
$100,000.00 vs $6,000???
No-brainer. Use your equip.ent and fix whatever needs fixing!
I have a pro reverb that I have had to repair, replace an output transformer, put speakers in, recap, and so on. I haven't even been back to gigging a year yet and I've probably AREADY made more money with it than I lost collectors value fixing it.
Fix 'em and play the shit out of 'em I say!
 
If you are going to work on old/tube gear, you need a Variac. Back in the day, my hobby was refurbishing old tube gear. Mostly tube AM/shortwave radios, Transoceanic, etc. Letting the smoke out, is bad. Which can happen if you just plug them in and turn them on.

I built this Variac with a light bulb so if there is a short, you don't fry the circuit, the light just lights up. A 100 watt bulb is about one amp depending on voltage. If the light comes on, you know there is a short circuit. There are two outlets, one from the Variac thru the light, and one directly from the Variac. For the picture, I put my heat gun on for a load to show the light. If the light comes on, stop and start looking for the short. Usually it's in the power supply, transformer, or physical damage.

I learned from people wiser than me, when you get a new unknown piece of gear, or one that has not been on in years, it's a good idea to bring the voltage up slowly to give the electrolytic capacitors time to re-polarize so they don't blow up. This also gives the components time to dry out if there is moisture. My process is bring them up to 50 volts for 20 minutes if no light. then 70 volts for 20 minutes, then 90 volts, etc. By the time you get to 90~100 volts the radio/amp will usually start working.

I also do this with my amps, especially if they have not been on in years.

IMG_20250207_115125961~2.webp
 
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