The process

[spantini]

I have this song I wrote back in . . . 1980, I think. Pop Rock. Except for performing it live with my band 2 times, I've only performed it solo on (unplugged) acoustic.

For the past couple months, I've been trying to work up a more recent song from around 2016 that's only been performed live once and that was also solo acoustic. Well, right in the middle of arranging this second song, that older song pops into my head and won't let me go. So off I go.

My usual approach is to start with my acoustic rhythm and vocal, then write the main accompanying parts and do the arrangement, all in my head at the same time. Lots of back and forth editing. After 2 weeks of long walks around the neighborhood playing this thing over and over in my head, it's finally starting to gel. There's the main rhythm part and vocal, then I've come up with some accents for a second guitar that need to be combined with some matching drum and bass parts - just some areas that need emphasis throughout, no real bass or drum parts yet. Also have a good idea for some lead guitar licks - nothing fancy, simple, basic lines.

All in my head. . . I do pick up my acoustic to see if the plan is working the way I'm hearing it. Pick a couple notes here and there, you know, but otherwise I don't actually try playing it until I've got it all worked out. Then I sit down and begin recording, but I'm nowhere near that point yet.

 

[Manslick]

Ye this - the way.
Some germ falls into my brain, sticks and wiggles and giggles until it gets my attention.
Then - no peace until it is fed.
over and over - even in a bar, it is there : warming me, taunting me, knowing me.
It isn't me but yet it is.
A familiar arm.
A helping hand.
A smile.
The noise is the milk I seek
Easy to get and smooth as silk
A shield from me
to save all of you
For I am a vermin, a slithering line of yuck
Incognito like a foreign buck
A hooded fool down on his luck
In the rain, being stoic
Taking my pittance.
1-2-3-4

 

[spantini]

When logic and proportion
Have fallen sloppy dead
And the White Knight is talking backwards
And the Red Queen's off with her head
Remember what the dormouse said
Feed your head
Feed your head

 

[TAE]

Manslick started it

This one from 1974

Echoes of the past

Living in Istanbullshit
Wondering when I'll be able to quit
this stupid game I was born into
7 in the morning makes me tired
Makes me wish I could quit
Maybe get fired
But I'm trapped by the coins in my pocket
40 hours a week plugged into a socket
It doesn't make sense
It just takes up our time
Could this talk about heaven
Just be a nursery rhyme
And echoes of the past
Have caught me at last


Rinse and repeat

 

[spantini]

I had been working on a couple songs I posted about earlier here, but one day a catchy little 4-note guitar riff popped into my head and wouldn't go away. So. . I put the other songs on the back burner and let this one move in.

Now my usual M.O. is, I have a short line or phrase of lyrics just pop into my head out of nowhere, usually while I'm hearing other music on TV or car radio, I quickly create verses, or maybe the chorus comes first. When I get all or most of that written (in my head), I'll work out some chord progressions in my head. After I get that far, I replay it over and over a thousand times (still in my head) until I'm ready to sit down with my acoustic and get down to putting the finishing touches on things. Well, this one didn't go that way. All I started with was a short riff - no lyrics or melody.

Well, that 4-note guitar riff turned into a 2-chord rhythm part which has accents similar to the original riff. That was just the intro and verses, I spent the last 8 days working out a chorus/refrain (not sure which at this point). I barely have outro, just a quick ending that will need improvement. I'd like to add a bridge somewhere in this mess, so I'm still playing it every day (on the unplugged Strat) throwing in different variations and progressions searching for something that clicks.

I jumped into Reaper and made a quick recording of this. First take. Rough. Sloppy. Anyway. . this is how far I've gotten to date. The line noise is the Fender Twin Reverb I slapped on it to smooth it out some - not the guitar. I didn't even figure out or set the tempo, just plugged in and hit Record. I'm gonna practice - practice - practice to get the rough edges out, then set the tempo. See how that sounds. I'm trying to capture some of the 60's feeling with the progression.

Here's a rough take : Strat > Twin Reverb > Flange

Take 1.1 Flat EQ - - - Take 1.2 Low shelf @ 200 Hz to get rid of the low end mud

 

[spantini]

I had been working on a couple songs I posted about earlier here, but one day a catchy little 4-note guitar riff popped into my head and wouldn't go away. So. . I put the other songs on the back burner and let this one move in.

Now my usual M.O. is, I have a short line or phrase of lyrics just pop into my head out of nowhere, usually while I'm hearing other music on TV or car radio, I quickly create verses, or maybe the chorus comes first. When I get all or most of that written (in my head), I'll work out some chord progressions in my head. After I get that far, I replay it over and over a thousand times (still in my head) until I'm ready to sit down with my acoustic and get down to putting the finishing touches on things. Well, this one didn't go that way. All I started with was a short riff - no lyrics or melody.

Well, that 4-note guitar riff turned into a 2-chord rhythm part which has accents similar to the original riff. That was just the intro and verses, I spent the last 8 days working out a chorus/refrain (not sure which at this point). I barely have outro, just a quick ending that will need improvement. I'd like to add a bridge somewhere in this mess, so I'm still playing it every day (on the unplugged Strat) throwing in different variations and progressions searching for something that clicks.

I jumped into Reaper and made a quick recording of this. First take. Rough. Sloppy. Anyway. . this is how far I've gotten to date. The line noise is the Fender Twin Reverb I slapped on it to smooth it out some - not the guitar. I didn't even figure out or set the tempo, just plugged in and hit Record. I'm gonna practice - practice - practice to get the rough edges out, then set the tempo. See how that sounds. I'm trying to capture some of the 60's feeling with the progression.

Here's a rough take : Strat > Twin Reverb > Flange

Take 1.1 Flat EQ - - - Take 1.2 Low shelf @ 200 Hz to get rid of the low end mud

Those first two tracks were the original dry Strat through a Low Shelf EQ and then that track duplicated with Fender Twin Reverb and rack flange sims added. I then recorded a new third track with my Taylor Big Baby acoustic through an AT2020 XLR mic using ReaEQ's Close Mic Acoustic preset.

I panned the original dry Strat left. The acoustic right. The duped track with Fender Twin and flange sims up the center at much lower level.

Just playing around, seeing what I get. There's not much separation because I played the acoustic to match the Strat. It's a fuller sound, anyway.

Here's a composite of all three :

 

[spantini]

When writing new, original material, do you consciously avoid sounding like well known songs? Do you not concern yourself with sounding alike? Do you make an effort to copy-cat instrument or vocal parts?

I have tried not sounding like other's songs, not only to please myself, but in an effort to provide fresh, new material for my ears as well as audiences.

Lately though, I'm drifting into writing tunes that someone might actually say "That reminds me of . . ." or, "Is that a [band name] song?"

 

[PorterhouseMusic]

My original song ideas rarely if ever sound like something else. And they tend not to sound like the same thing - one from the next. I'm all over the place - which I think is good.

Although, having said that - I did record and share a scratch-pad rough idea here a year or two ago that someone said sounded al little like "Can't Find My Way Home". I didn't hear it until they mentioned it. I could see why they said that - but it wasn't enough to send it to the trash heap (although the whole thing did get shelved because I got bogged down on where I wanted the lyrics to go).

 

[Mick Doobie]

I think as some guy who is not on the radio or whatever you're going to get a certain amount of "that sounds kind of like" responses from people. Why I can't say. People are looking for something familiar? We all have influences which bubble forth in our own efforts at songwriting? I don't know, could be a number of reasons. I used to kind of fight it, overly critical with a dose of lack of confidence stopped in my tracks so to speak. That was long ago. Can't get paralyzed or discouraged by that. Now, I kind of embrace it, with a personal acknowledgement of as influenced by. As long as you perform it honestly, as yourself, that's what matters. Chances are the listener may not hear "that sounds like", or even if they initially do by the second verse or chorus they start hearing you. Make 'em a believer, can I get a witness.

If things are not necessarily coming easy from wherever songs come from, I at times might opt for I wonder if I can write a song in the style of...insert artist/songwriter name. Its a fun exercise, and some good songs can come from it, as long as you play it honest. Own it. I've played songs for other songwriters where I have revealed the influence, the I wonder if I can write a song in the style of. After a little pause to consider, I suppose it's about an equal split between "yeah, I can kind of see that", and "hm, I thought it sounded a bit like insert artist/songwriter, or neither. Either way I'm okay with that, I'm on the right track and it was worth the effort. Of course you can't outright copy anyone, even if not intentionally. Other than that, own it. Believe in it, and they will also.

My for whatever it's worth.

 

[grimtraveller]

When writing new, original material, do you consciously avoid sounding like well known songs?

Every time. I have never once attempted to write a song that sounds like a well-known or even not well-known song. But I have been known to use sections of songs as springboards for ideas. But they never sound like them. For example, I might take a particular progression played on an electric guitar and convert it to a saxophone, slow it down {or speed it up}, maybe change the time signature and then come up with new and complementary melodies or harmonies or other parts.

Do you not concern yourself with sounding alike?

No. I couldn't sound alike even if I wanted to, primarily because I'm just too stubborn to be playing someone else's song and passing it off as my own. Also, I'm constrained by what I or various contributors might play or their voices.

Do you make an effort to copy-cat instrument or vocal parts?

No. And even if I crib ideas from a particular song, they never end up sounding like that song.

Lately though, I'm drifting into writing tunes that someone might actually say "That reminds me of . . ." or, "Is that a [band name] song?"

I don't think that is avoidable. One never knows what caché of songs another person knows, likes, dislikes or is aware of, or what may trigger memories for that person. I don't think any of my songs sound like anyone else's but over the years I've had people compare certain songs to different people's songs. One particular song had one person in 2003 comparing it to the music from "Starsky and Hutch," and one person in 2023 comparing it to Frank Zappa. I could hear neither but it's not for me to make the comparison. Both people heard what they heard. I'm just fascinated that they heard such different things in the song.

 

[Mick Doobie]

There is nothing wrong about taking a walk in the footsteps of musicality, artistry. Whether consciously or unconsciously, knowingly or unknowingly. You are a product of that. If you don't believe it you're lying to yourself.

There is a particular songwriter and later recording artist who I was watching in an older video, sort of a songwriter showcase. He introduced a song saying he had written it for a particular top recording artist, in hopes that it would get recorded, said the proceeds had bought his house. I had heard the song before but wasn't necessarily that familiar. To me the song when performed that night by him on acoustic guitar sounded just like the songwriter, it sounded just like him. Impressively, given the introduction and what I now knew, it also sounded very much like a song the recording artist would do. And, in fact did, recorded full band as himself. Who copied who? Arguably, both. The writer, the recording artist, the listener, everybody benefited. You know who else benefited, was influenced, inspired? Other songwriters, no matter their own personal motivation. Songwriters who would/will go on to influence and inspire other songwriters, songwriters who will never know they are walking in the footsteps of that songwriter on an acoustic guitar that night.

There's nothing new under the sun, man. Best we can hope for is that it occasionally shines on us.

 

[markmann]

I rarely ever play cover songs so when I write a song I like to think it's original and not like anything else. That said, I've gotten several comments by people who think certain songs of mine sound like well known bands. Sometimes I can kinda see where they got the idea but other times it's like... how did you ever make that comparison?

 

[spantini]

This is interesting as far as the songwriting process goes. Some of mine have taken years to write and I currently have several stuck in limbo looking for just the right lyrics or catchy phrases . . hooks? Anyway, here's (Guess Who & BTO) Randy Bachman's story about one of his biggest hits.

“I said to them, ‘Just play these three chords and follow me!’ And then — boom — it hit me: This is a classic!” It took guitarist Randy Bachman seven years to write "Takin' Care of Business." It finally came together at one nearly disastrous show

The guitarist reveals that the Bachman-Turner Overdrive hit was actually inspired by the Beatles' "Paperback Writer" and written for the Guess Who

www.guitarplayer.com

 

[Thekesslerboy]

There is a particular songwriter and later recording artist who I was watching in an older video, sort of a songwriter showcase. He introduced a song saying he had written it for a particular top recording artist, in hopes that it would get recorded, said the proceeds had bought his house. I had heard the song before but wasn't necessarily that familiar.

That sounds interesting. Who were the two artists? Is the video on YouTube?

 

[Manslick]

I like THIS

 

[Mick Doobie]

That sounds interesting. Who were the two artists? Is the video on YouTube?

I'm not hugely into modern country music. So I guess because of that I had two songs mixed up, or incorporated into a story about one song. I am a fan of the songwriter, but prefer his live solo acoustic performances before he became "famous" as a recording artist.

A guy named Chris Stapleton, songwriter now recording artist. The song I was thinking of was written for recording artist George Strait. The song that Stapleton says bought him a house was written for recording artist Kenny Chesney. George Strait, classy guy, not your "bro country" type recording artist. Maybe a tad vanilla and wholesome. Writing effort nailed it pretty good. Not sure a number one hit, but charted well, I would think. I suspect Stapleton did pretty well putting a few bucks in his pocket, copying someone else's style when writing.

 

[Mick Doobie]

The other, recorded by Chesney, that bought Stapleton a house. A bit more "bro country" than the other recorded by Strait. Chris doesn't say if he had Chesney in mind when writing the song, but he almost doesn't have to, it sounds like a Chesney song. I still prefer Stapleton 's version.

Songwriting, motivations can vary, for fun, for money, for self/artistic expression, expressing joy or exorcising demons, who can say what is right or wrong.

 

[spantini]

A fresh, new song popped into my head yesterday morning. I was on my way to the Doc's office and POW ! - I don't know what brought it on. I got a complete first verse of music and lyrics and . . . I kept it going over and over in my head for the next couple of hours . . . then when I got back home, I wrote it down. Then I had to take care of some shopping. Kept it going and made it through lunch after shopping, then . . . POOF ! - I lost it. I mean, I still have the words of the first verse but the rhythm and tempo went. Just went. I've been staring at this sheet of paper for hours and it just won't click. It'll come back sometime, just no telling when. I've been through this before where it was 6-8 years before it came back to me.

 

[Slouching Raymond]

A fresh, new song popped into my head yesterday morning. I was on my way to the Doc's office and POW ! - I don't know what brought it on. I got a complete first verse of music and lyrics and . . . I kept it going over and over in my head for the next couple of hours . . . then when I got back home, I wrote it down. Then I had to take care of some shopping. Kept it going and made it through lunch after shopping, then . . . POOF ! - I lost it. I mean, I still have the words of the first verse but the rhythm and tempo went. Just went. I've been staring at this sheet of paper for hours and it just won't click. It'll come back sometime, just no telling when. I've been through this before where it was 6-8 years before it came back to me.

Good argument for carrying a small voice recorder. Or maybe just sing it into your phone, while it is there.
Plan ahead!

 

[Mick Doobie]

A fresh, new song popped into my head yesterday morning. I was on my way to the Doc's office and POW ! - I don't know what brought it on. I got a complete first verse of music and lyrics and . . . I kept it going over and over in my head for the next couple of hours . . . then when I got back home, I wrote it down. Then I had to take care of some shopping. Kept it going and made it through lunch after shopping, then . . . POOF ! - I lost it. I mean, I still have the words of the first verse but the rhythm and tempo went. Just went. I've been staring at this sheet of paper for hours and it just won't click. It'll come back sometime, just no telling when. I've been through this before where it was 6-8 years before it came back to me.

Hate it when that happens. Often the most uniquely structured, something you can hang your hat on as original. A unique transition chord that leads to a curve ball direction, and then making your way back home again. Even if later you manage to remember the chord structure the vocal line or feel can be elusive. Unable to totally remember what you had, knowing you're settling if you pursue picking up the pieces to completion, the remnants of the idea. A mere shadow of what could have been.