original song, please critique my mix

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

I've recorded dozens of songs but this is my first stab at mixing.

I think I need to work more on volume automations on the vocal track. What do y'all think? Hit me hard, make it hurt. Thanks for listening!

Time Wasting Away

vocals, guitar line, guitar mic

 

[Papanate]

The song is good - the guitar and vocals at stiff - play the song about a million times more - until you have total confindence in all the part - then record it and bring it back here.

 

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

The song is good - the guitar and vocals at stiff - play the song about a million times more - until you have total confindence in all the part - then record it and bring it back here.

Hi, thank you for taking the time to listen and reply. I believe I read somewhere else around here that wearing too many hats can work against some folks. I 100% agree with your assessment that I need to work more on the music aspect of recording and mixing my own songs, and I appreciate your honesty.

So my question is, would it be possible to listen to the mix and give an opinion on that as a separate entity from the performance? The reason I ask is that I also have been recording other people. I don't have permission to post their songs on a public internet forum, so I was hoping I could take some of what I learn from mixing my own songs and apply these principles to other mixes.

I understand having a different vocalist/guitar player would change things, but I'm talking about proper usage of automation envelopes, correct application of EQ and compression, stuff like that. My friend has a bit of a deeper voice and is a much better guitar player, but our styles are very similar and we've recorded on the same equipment. No, I am not charging him for services, he knows I'm a complete noob. He wants to hear his recordings as a learning tool to improve and hone his chops, much the same as I want to do with mixing (as well as improving my own vocals and guitar technique).

In that context, is anyone able to stomach listening to the mix in spite of the performance? I realize I may have screwed up by asking y'all to "hit me hard and make it hurt" because I was not seeking to be murdered

 

[TalismanRich]

Right now it's a song demo... Here's the words, here's the melody, here's the guitar part. It's rough. The vocals are hesitant, and often off pitch. Everything sounds dry, there's no space to the recording.

To reach a final product, it needs more work.

I would start with the guitar, get that recorded, maybe with a bit more of the body. Once you get that down pat, without any flubs, then move to adding the vocals. I think you could back away a bit from the mic, and sing more forcefully. You're not singing to yourself in the living room, you're singing to an audience, and they need to hear you. Work on your breathing, that will help you hit and sustain the pitch. Don't worry about automation with such a simple project. Some simple compression should allow things to stay even. But all the compression and EQ in the world won't fix a broken track. If you have trouble getting down the whole song in one shot, work on one verse at a time. That's what punch in /punch out is for. As long as you don't change the mic setup, it can be seamless.

Add a touch of reverb after you get a good mix. For something like this, running the tracks to a reverb track will allow you to blend things together in a coherent way. You don't want a short reverb on the guitar and a big booming reverb on the vocal. That sounds unnatural. You want it to sound like you're in a nice room and it is adding to your performance. You don't need to swim in reverb, a little bit goes a long way to blending things together.

Hopefully that wasn't too hard.

 

[DM60]

I agree with Talisman, I think if you want to level up, I would play this over and over until it is very well rehearsed. Then I would mic the guitar and play it, then come back and do the vocals. Now if you get so good you can do both, but I think getting a good cut on bot at once is pretty hard. So, good guitar take, once you have that, then a good vocal take. Not sure of your DAW, but don't be afraid to just make new tracks (or if you are using Reaper, to use "takes" and get this as good as you can make it.

See this is the hard part about recording, everyone thinks the pros just went in and recorded it and it was done. Many did a lot of pre-production work and that meant rehearse the song. So, you can rehearse or record it until you get a few good takes. Then lay down the vocals, that will require multiple takes. But do yourself a favor and record them separately.

 

[PorterhouseMusic]

Dig the main guitar part. Clean it up and it's strong. Song may need some more variation. Vocal is pretty rough. Definitely could work on that or get someone else to sing it.

The guitar sounds a wee bit phasey?

I agree that you should record the gtr by itself and get it tight and then come back and do the vocal.

 

[mbsmike]

Hate to sound like a broken record but I agree with getting the guitar track perfected then doing a strong vocal. I always do multiple takes of the guitar, pick the best take then comp the iffy parts of that with better parts from other takes......I actually do the same with vocals.

 

[rob aylestone]

Not listening in the studio, but on a tablet, and the guitar finger shreaks were mega obvious. The vocal at the end of the sections with those long notes must be either perfected or corrected because the pitch wavered about, very exposed at that point. The guitar seemed very fretboard heavy, and not round. The vocal voice tone was ok, i thought, style wise, but the voice tried to follow the guitar rhythm too closely in places making it very jerky. Some times notes were sustained, other times they were allowed to stop dead, in time with the music beat. If you have a DAW that can show you pitch, have a look at the vocals and see where they are flat or sharp.

 

[dobro]

I've recorded dozens of songs but this is my first stab at mixing.

I think I need to work more on volume automations on the vocal track. What do y'all think? Hit me hard, make it hurt. Thanks for listening!

Time Wasting Away

vocals, guitar line, guitar mic

Levels are fine, and the frequency spectrum is about right (I'd like a bit more bottom on the guitar, though). Something to explore more might be space. I'm using a blend reverb plus a space reverb on my vocal + guitar stuff these days. Even though I'm going for a relatively dry sound (I want to avoid the sound having a ton of space when the video that goes with it is of a very small space lol), that combination of verbs pleases my ears. And tape emulation. And console emulation. And a sprinkling of saturation. Done.

 

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

Right now it's a song demo... Here's the words, here's the melody, here's the guitar part. It's rough. The vocals are hesitant, and often off pitch. Everything sounds dry, there's no space to the recording.

Thank you for the detailed reply. I now understand that what I have is a demo. Like I stated above, I am hoping to use some of the principles I learn in this thread to apply to other mixes I am experimenting on with friends.

With the vocals, I know what I need to work on there. With the dryness and space, would you say it would help to increase the reverb send to the vocal track and maybe pan the guitar a little wider? My personal preference with reverb is to lean to the dry side but if I need to be a bit more heavy handed with it, I can.

To reach a final product, it needs more work.

I would start with the guitar, get that recorded, maybe with a bit more of the body. Once you get that down pat, without any flubs, then move to adding the vocals. I think you could back away a bit from the mic, and sing more forcefully. You're not singing to yourself in the living room, you're singing to an audience, and they need to hear you. Work on your breathing, that will help you hit and sustain the pitch. Don't worry about automation with such a simple project. Some simple compression should allow things to stay even. But all the compression and EQ in the world won't fix a broken track. If you have trouble getting down the whole song in one shot, work on one verse at a time. That's what punch in /punch out is for. As long as you don't change the mic setup, it can be seamless.

Speaking of punching in/out, the track I posted is composed of three parts that I put together from two takes. I know, I know... after reading this thread, I need to record the vocals and guitar separately and do it in more than two takes.

Thank you so much for the vocal tips, these are suggestions I can work on and practice. You hit the nail on the head that I rehearse in a one bedroom apartment and sing timidly so as to not disturb the neighbors. I record in my friend's house though, so prolly need to rehearse over there more so I can work on belting it out.

Add a touch of reverb after you get a good mix. For something like this, running the tracks to a reverb track will allow you to blend things together in a coherent way. You don't want a short reverb on the guitar and a big booming reverb on the vocal. That sounds unnatural. You want it to sound like you're in a nice room and it is adding to your performance. You don't need to swim in reverb, a little bit goes a long way to blending things together.

Yes, that is what I have done with the reverb. I put it in the Effect Send and ran it to the vocal and guitar tracks so I can adjust their inputs separately. I think I just need to send a little more.

Hopefully that wasn't too hard.

Not at all. I really appreciate all the advice, thanks again!

 

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

I agree with Talisman, I think if you want to level up, I would play this over and over until it is very well rehearsed. Then I would mic the guitar and play it, then come back and do the vocals. Now if you get so good you can do both, but I think getting a good cut on bot at once is pretty hard. So, good guitar take, once you have that, then a good vocal take. Not sure of your DAW, but don't be afraid to just make new tracks (or if you are using Reaper, to use "takes" and get this as good as you can make it.

Thank you for replying. All good points. I use Cakewalk and do have the ability to make new tracks and I think they even have a "take" function as well.

See this is the hard part about recording, everyone thinks the pros just went in and recorded it and it was done. Many did a lot of pre-production work and that meant rehearse the song. So, you can rehearse or record it until you get a few good takes. Then lay down the vocals, that will require multiple takes. But do yourself a favor and record them separately.

I painted a large portrait of my mom last year, acrylic on canvas. When I presented it to her, my sister in law asked how long it took me to paint it. I didn't have a straight answer but I did tell her the truth, which is that I spent way more time sketching, researching angles and light sources, and contemplating details than actual time with paintbrush on the canvas. It's not easy to take a 2 dimensional photograph, enlarge and paint it on a 2 dimensional surface, and make it look 3 dimensional.

Thank you for your advice. Another benefit of recording guitar and vocals separately is isolation.

 

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

Dig the main guitar part. Clean it up and it's strong. Song may need some more variation. Vocal is pretty rough. Definitely could work on that or get someone else to sing it.

The guitar sounds a wee bit phasey?

I agree that you should record the gtr by itself and get it tight and then come back and do the vocal.

Thank you for your assessment.

Do you mind expanding on what you mean by guitar sounding phasey? The guitar itself is an OM, so it doesn't have a boomy bass like a dreadnaught. On the EQ, I removed the lows around 100-200 Hz. I also lowered the guitar -1.5db at 2-3kHz so as not to compete with vocals. With compression, I admit I used an Acoustic Guitar preset. I added a light reverb but probably not enough.

 

[Manslick]

I get it.
Don't change your course.
I like this.

 

[dobro]

Thank you for your assessment.

Do you mind expanding on what you mean by guitar sounding phasey?

How many mics did you record it with? One or two? If one, it can't be phasey. If two, zoom in on the two tracks and see if the peaks and troughs of the wav form align.

The guitar itself is an OM, so it doesn't have a boomy bass like a dreadnaught.

That's probably why I thought a bit more bottom would help.

On the EQ, I removed the lows around 100-200 Hz.

When you say 'removed', are you talking about a low-cut filter or a shelving filter or something else? Also, 100-200 Hz has a ton of information for acoustic guitar. Was it more 100 or 200?

I also lowered the guitar -1.5db at 2-3kHz so as not to compete with vocals. With compression, I admit I used an Acoustic Guitar preset.

Why'd you use the compressor on it? What were you trying to make happen?

 

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

How many mics did you record it with? One or two? If one, it can't be phasey. If two, zoom in on the two tracks and see if the peaks and troughs of the wav form align.

Aha! I recorded with one mic but also had the pickup plugged in. K&K passive p/u. On the mix, before reading this thread, I used a lot of automation on the plugged in guitar track because it was isolated. On the miked guitar, I used a little automation to raise the volume a dB or two between verses. I kept overall volume of the guitar line louder, peaking around -3dB. On the guitar mic, I kept the volume lower due to vocals bleeding in. I have kind of gone in blind, which is why I'm now leaning heavier on the forum. If you don't mind, can you please tell me all the ways I messed up on this part?

That's probably why I thought a bit more bottom would help.

Got it

When you say 'removed', are you talking about a low-cut filter or a shelving filter or something else? Also, 100-200 Hz has a ton of information for acoustic guitar. Was it more 100 or 200?

I believe I used a shelving filter. I set it to 150 Hz. Moving right to left, at 150 Hz the horizontal line drops off to the bottom. Is that a shelving filter? The preset said "remove lows", I just moved it from 200 to 150 Hz. Do you have any recommendations to correct the EQ?

Why'd you use the compressor on it? What were you trying to make happen?

That is a good question for which I don't have a solid answer. I understand EQ and reverb a tiny bit more. I just know with the vocal compression, I adjusted this thing on the graph until the Master bus stopped clipping. Not sure about guitar, I just plugged in the preset
?

Thank you again for all the help.

 

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

I get it.
Don't change your course.
I like this.

Thank you!

 

[elly-d]

i think its perfect. production and performance suits the song.

 

[dobro]

Aha! I recorded with one mic but also had the pickup plugged in. K&K passive p/u. On the mix, before reading this thread, I used a lot of automation on the plugged in guitar track because it was isolated. On the miked guitar, I used a little automation to raise the volume a dB or two between verses. I kept overall volume of the guitar line louder, peaking around -3dB. On the guitar mic, I kept the volume lower due to vocals bleeding in. I have kind of gone in blind, which is why I'm now leaning heavier on the forum. If you don't mind, can you please tell me all the ways I messed up on this part?

Got it

I believe I used a shelving filter. I set it to 150 Hz. Moving right to left, at 150 Hz the horizontal line drops off to the bottom. Is that a shelving filter? The preset said "remove lows", I just moved it from 200 to 150 Hz. Do you have any recommendations to correct the EQ?

That is a good question for which I don't have a solid answer. I understand EQ and reverb a tiny bit more. I just know with the vocal compression, I adjusted this thing on the graph until the Master bus stopped clipping. Not sure about guitar, I just plugged in the preset

You know what? I think you need to familiarize yourself with some of the basics instead of trying to mix from online suggestions. Here's a standard reference work for mixing by Mike Senior: 'Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio'. It costs about 50 bucks and it'll take you hours to go through it, but you'll know way more than you know now. You'll be diving into that book again and again in the future as well. Alternately, people here can recommend online tutorials that are probably as good.

 

[Dusty Ol' Bones]

You know what? I think you need to familiarize yourself with some of the basics instead of trying to mix from online suggestions. Here's a standard reference work for mixing by Mike Senior: 'Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio'. It costs about 50 bucks and it'll take you hours to go through it, but you'll know way more than you know now. You'll be diving into that book again and again in the future as well. Alternately, people here can recommend online tutorials that are probably as good.

All good points, thank you. Must be synchronicity. I'm just now seeing this but last night around the same time you posted here, I was on amazon mulling over which book to buy, Song Mixing Secrets by John Rogers or the one you mentioned. I went with the former because it was like $5 on kindle. I will skim over the book I just got and if I'm not satisfied, I will order the Mike Senior book. Thanks again!

 

[dobro]

And I will check out the John Rogers book. Thank YOU!