Mandolin - alternative pop rock - mix feedback

andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
Hello, I'd like to get some feedback on this mix, please. I didn't realize until a couple of days ago that it kinda sounds like "Amanda Lynn" and not necessarily "a mandolin". :) oops. Hopefully people will read the lyrics. Especially the gf.

Experimented with a delay on the verse guitars, and I started plucking some rhythm a few weeks ago that I though sounded kinda cool, so I built a song around it. I did excessive vocal gain rides, probably a hundred, to be honest, if not more. It should, hopefully, sound like less work on the compressor and more natural, but still with that compressor flavor.

For the first time, I chose to leave the drums within Superior Drummer and not bounce them to the DAW. I really liked how they were sounding and I didn't want to mess it up. So, within SD, I used their poorly designed EQ and compressor only on the kick and snare. The drum channel has another glue compressor, to catch what the inner compressors don't and for gel, and a HP at 30hz and slight shelf boost at 4khz for only 1db. The snare is purposefully dark since the rest of the tracks are rather bright. First time I've used this snare, as well.

Please let me know what you think, this was one of my favorite songs to work on but it's time to move along to something else. Thanks!





If I was the same as them, I'd be him, I'd be him.
Back and forth come home again, let you win, I'd let you win.
Winter gets the best of me. I can't sleep, no I can't sleep.
Close my eyes and make believe so I can dream,
so I can dream alone.

Pull my puppet strings again, til I give in, til I give in.
Back and forth into my head, a mandolin, a mandolin.
Winter gets the best of me. I can't sleep, I can't sleep.
Close my eyes and make believe so I can dream,
so I can dream alone.

I never wanted a change. I'll stop so far away.

You're running out, I'll stay and bleed.
You're so far down, you're so like me.
Before you leave, take one last look
and how it all turned out, just like you knew they would.
 
In terms of songwriting, this was my favorite of yours, Andru. I actually like the mellow part (it reminded me of Bush/Glycerine during the beginning) more than the outro chorus/screaming part because I was really sinking into the groove and vibe.

The mix seems pretty good. There's a bit of overall congestion/masking of the vocal at times, and when the screaming comes in it gets a little harsh.
 
Nola said:
...and when the screaming comes in it gets a little harsh.
Click to expand...

thanks. What are you listening on, again? Just wondering if you have something that has a treble/presence boost or anything like that. Haven't had that type of feedback yet, though I shared with some others privately, and the freq spectrum appears well-balanced in the bus EQ, compared to similar style tunes. I know you've been the one to mention that specific issue before, so I'm just wondering if it's something on my end or yours, or both, or none! I definitely go for a "brighter" mix whereas I notice yours are much more on the dark side. Maybe it's a preference thing, headphone/monitoring thing, or something else. I'll look for that comment from others and make note.

Thanks on the songwriting aspect. I can see Glycerine being similar in style. I was going to keep the whole thing mellow until I hummed the chorus melody higher up and then I said, "oh, yeah this needs to go all-out in the end". I prefer the ending part, myself. Thanks though man :thumbs up:
 
Ah, the inevitable ballad. :D

I'm hearing the harshness nola mentioned. It sounds like that patented mp3 swishiness on the cymbals.

I might be inclined to make the beginning more sparse: maybe leave out the pad or guitar and the harmonies until a few stanzas in. To give it more contrast. A mandolin probably wouldn't hurt there either! :D

It was good. I like the build. On the higher notes, your vocal inflection is changing. Sounds more like you're pushing to get the notes rather than straining to hold back, which I think is a good contrast.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
It sounds like that patented mp3 swishiness on the cymbals.
Click to expand...

Hopefully that's all it is. There aren't any boosts anywhere, which are usually the culprits of harshness..or Soundcloud doesn't like my files sometimes, I'm told. I'll attach the wav here sometime soon and hopefully someone can let me know if that's any different.

Re: the singing. I actually didn't have any trouble whatsoever with the chorus vocals up high. I was pretty amazed I was hitting them all with ease - the only trouble was the bridge, which is just before the ending chorus, where I go even higher with "I'll STAY and bleed". That part had some really bad takes. But the chorus vocals were, surprisingly, a breeze to hit. They are also doubled, so there's a track underneath it that matched up close to the one I picked for the louder/main channel.

In retrospect, I get what you mean about breaking up the first half. It is kinda all one way until the bigger part. You're right. See, the issue is that I write these in 5 mins with only the rhythm chords and vocal melody in mind. Then, once I start laying down the rhythm guitars, I come up with ideas and simply plop it down. Not a whole lot of thought goes into it, sometimes. If I had a serious project or group, I'd spend more time on arrangement and writing. You have a good point there, thanks for mentioning it. And thanks for the listen/comment!
 
Sounds pretty good overall. Am I hearing an edit between dream and alone toward the end of the first verse? The delay echoes on the guitar seem to drop out for an instant. In general, what jumps out at me is the treatment of the lead vocal. I'm hearing a kind of flanging effect, like what I hear when the level of a double is too high. I could go a little lower on some of the synth string pad parts. Too high, and it starts to sound a little cheesy. That's all I've got.
 
andrushkiwt said:
thanks. What are you listening on, again? Just wondering if you have something that has a treble/presence boost or anything like that. Haven't had that type of feedback yet, though I shared with some others privately, and the freq spectrum appears well-balanced in the bus EQ, compared to similar style tunes. I know you've been the one to mention that specific issue before, so I'm just wondering if it's something on my end or yours, or both, or none! I definitely go for a "brighter" mix whereas I notice yours are much more on the dark side. Maybe it's a preference thing, headphone/monitoring thing, or something else. I'll look for that comment from others and make note.

Thanks on the songwriting aspect. I can see Glycerine being similar in style. I was going to keep the whole thing mellow until I hummed the chorus melody higher up and then I said, "oh, yeah this needs to go all-out in the end". I prefer the ending part, myself. Thanks though man :thumbs up:
Click to expand...

Hey man, I do tend toward darker mixes, but let me explain why just briefly: mostly it's b/c it reminds me of analog that I grew up listening to. All my own early recordings were on analog 4-track. I like those sounds. But, the other reason is that through the mix clinic I've realized my ears are pretty sensitive to brights and even more to harsh. I don't know if this is anatomical or what.

My headphones are good. I have two sets and one is hyped for brights and one is very balanced. I always listened on the balanced set and know them well having listened to music or recorded music on them for 10 years. So even though they are headphones, I feel what I am hearing is usually accurate b/c I know them so well. If I'm not hearing something accurate (e.g. like low end) I'll put on a reference track and test on different systems. I hope that helps. I always wonder what people are monitoring on too when I don't hear what they hear sometimes.

Maybe we should all post our monitoring system in our sigs.
 
Nice clear vocal. It sits real well on top of the other tracks. I'm not usually a fan of the stereo delay/reverb like you have, but I thought it worked well here.

The start of the second line "Back and forth...." sounds like it has an edit. Maybe that's just the way you sang it. But it sounds like an edit.

The guitars sound real good. Great in fact.

Bass sounds nice.

It takes a long time for the song to kick in. And when it does, there wasn't a whole lot of low end umph. You get the feeling the band really blasted away, but there is little volume change (especially in the low end).

No complaints on the drums. They sound excellent.
 
I think it sounds good. I don't hear any harshness. The vocal sounds smooth to me even when the "screaming" kicks in. I wouldn't consider it screaming though...although singing, with a belted out vocal, is nothing but pitch controlled yelling when it all boils down.

I really like the song and I think its a pretty pro sounding recording and mix.
great job
 
TripleM said:
You get the feeling the band really blasted away, but there is little volume change (especially in the low end).
Click to expand...

hey thanks for the feedback. I agree the meters don't move much, and it isn't a limiting problem since it's only taking off -3.5db tops, and that's basically a snare fill or two. Same with the compressor, only about 2-3db. It was most likely a recording thing and MIDI drum writing thing. But I'm actually not too concerned because I was worried the first half was too quiet. I didn't want anyone turning the first half way up and then blowing out the speakers :) I get you though. valid point
 
jimistone said:
I think it sounds good. I don't hear any harshness. The vocal sounds smooth to me even when the "screaming" kicks in. I really like the song and I think its a pretty pro sounding recording and mix.
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hey thanks a lot Jimi. I listened again on 2 other headphone pairs and a home system, and I'm not hearing harshness either yet. I don't know if it's a preference thing, or monitoring issue, but I'd def like to know more about it. Good to know though, thanks for listening and commenting.
 
Robus said:
In general, what jumps out at me is the treatment of the lead vocal. I'm hearing a kind of flanging effect, like what I hear when the level of a double is too high.
Click to expand...

thanks Ray. It's probably the chorus under the vocal. Definitely intentional, as in parts of this tune linked below. Actually, most of the tunes I write and mix have this type of sound in mind, from vocal to bass to drums... while they aren't my favorite group, they have the sound that I like the most.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPWJ8cYxw6M
 
Y'know, I was trying to avoid using the word "emo" to describe the vocal tone in the high bits so as to not offend.
Then you go and post a 30 Seconds to Mars song. :P

The cymbals still seem a little swishy on the original mp3. I wonder if it might be your compressor settings?
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Y'know, I was trying to avoid using the word "emo" to describe the vocal tone in the high bits so as to not offend.
Then you go and post a 30 Seconds to Mars song. :P

The cymbals still seem a little swishy on the original mp3. I wonder if it might be your compressor settings?
Click to expand...

hmm, no compression on the OH's, and the bus compressor is at a popular/frequently used set up. Med attack/long release at 1.5:1 with only a couple db GR. For things like harshness or whatnot, there'd have to be some extraordinarily obvious errant settings or clearly large reductions, which there aren't. It's possible that the drum bus compressor and master compressor are somehow interacting, but yeah there's no boosts or weird gain reduction things going on, so I'm really not sure.

I do ride the cymbals in most of my choruses, so that probably isn't helping things. Especially if I don't have a nice treated room to mix them in. Maybe a small cut or something is all it would need. I'll have monitors and a decent room come summer. :) While the complaints against any kind of harshness are more in favor of it not being an issue, I'll stick to what I'm doing for now.

thanks for listening to the original file again. that actually helped a lot. thanks steve

oh, yeah, emo wouldn't offend. Helena is one of my favorite songs, and I don't mind at all being classified as part that at all.
 
Nice work and writing, dude. Your stuff is always inspiring, and this one didn't disappoint. Any input on the mix would be nitpicking, as nothing really stood out to me, although others have made some good points.

In my head I was hearing a harmony at times during the choruses, during the long notes, like a 4th up and descending down with the main, but what you got sounds great as is.

The delay on the rhythm in the beginning sounds cool.
 
Excellent work all around.

I thought the guitars were harsh in the part after the build. kinda strong in the 1k (?) region. It might just be the amp types, that rectified tone, but it sound like they are piled on top of each other and they lose articulation. That might be what you want, but it's not a tone I'm enamored with. They sit in the mix well, so no problem there.

Again, good job. Really enjoyed the listen.
 
JohnnyAmato said:
Nice work and writing, dude. Your stuff is always inspiring, and this one didn't disappoint. Any input on the mix would be nitpicking, as nothing really stood out to me, although others have made some good points.

In my head I was hearing a harmony at times during the choruses, during the long notes, like a 4th up and descending down with the main, but what you got sounds great as is.

The delay on the rhythm in the beginning sounds cool.
Click to expand...

cool thanks man. I didn't get around to harmonies for this one, simply because nothing was sticking out the very hour I recorded the vocals. I wanted to put them in there, but I always do them immediately after the 12 or so takes of the lead, and like i said, nothing jumped out at me and I didn't feel like taking time to come up with something. you're right, i should've. it'd be interesting to hear what you came up with. i'll try to figure out what 4th of that is :)
 
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