good 80's/90's analog consoles/mixers.

[Steenamaroo]

Following up -
I don't have that much to offer on the topic but two things strike me.
Have you considered looking into rackmount modules from old consoles.
Maybe a console is what you want and that's cool but if space, money, maintenance, practicality are concerns, it may be possible to get various old-school flavours in rackmount form.
If you're DIY handy it's a cool approach but it might not be your thing or what you're looking for.

The other is how much attention have you put into the instruments and amplifiers of the day?
I can't rule out the medium 100% but I'd imagine the tracking techniques, environment, and instruments/amps would have a much bigger impact on replicating a certain era than the tape or or DAW.
Someone, perhaps facetiously, said go back in time, but there's a something to be said for that.

Just a few thoughts to maybe get things back on track.

 

[sweetbeats]

Hey man fair enough as far as I'm concerned.

We WANT you to get the sound you want. And the cool thing is, regardless of whether or not anybody else is into "that" sound, it's what you are clearly passionate about achieving...and I promise you everybody here is more interested in you achieving your sonic bliss than they are being "right" about something. But I also promise you there is a high percentage of people here, myself included, who have learned the hard way, and chased phantoms and avoided the realities of what it takes to run an analog studio and what is really needed to obtain good results. And, at the risk of speaking for others, we may be adamant about certain things at times because it is painful and frustrating to watch somebody starting down the hard path rudely ignoring the tips and helps that are offered.

You are going to keep plunging ahead to achieve the sound you want and more power to you. What you'll get here are opinions in response to questions and trial and error information you post...opinions. What you do with them is up to you, but i know in my book if there is overwhelming conformity of opinions from multiple sources, and those sources have more experience than me, I really take the time to consider what those sources are saying, and most importantly remember I don't know jack $h1t about most things. At the very least it keeps me from being an a$$hole, at the most it keeps my mind open to new information.

It's a new day. And your post says something about you. I wouldn't have expected, after your approach and words, you would come back and apologize. Thank you.

So what is your next step? Still to get a console and a tape machine?

 

[RFR]

Someone, perhaps facetiously, said go back in time, but there's a something to be said for that.

That was me. And I was serious. Because even if you went to the same studio with the same personel, they would have changed.
Everyone, the band, the engineers, the producer would to some degree have evolved and adopted modern recording and mixing techniques. And attitudes.

And then......it would go to mastering. Loudness wars.

So yeah, I was serious. You'd have to go back in time.
For a 100% recreation. But in the present, you can get pretty close.

 

[Chili]

I'm okay with the alias, but as Steeno said, it's Jimmy's call, he's the one who bounced you. Apologies are always a good thing.

Not sure if it is helpful, but someone in another thread said yesterday, he might consider selling a soundcraft 24 channel board. I know next to nothing about those boards, just thought it was coincidental. I don't have a link readily available, so maybe browse through the forums.

Edit: Link provided...

https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...dio-question-loop-problem-392199/#post4437094

 

[miroslav]

For a 100% recreation. But in the present, you can get pretty close.

This was/is the point...with today's technology, you don't need every piece of gear from a given period in order to recreate that sound. Sure, if you have a big budget, you can do whatever you want, but if not, there ARE ways to make the most out of your budget and still get what you need.

Isn't there a song like that...get what you want, get what you need....hmmm...?

If I had the money...I would own a Neve console, but for now, I'll use some Neve clones.

 

[Kurkkumopo]

I'm okay with the alias, but as Steeno said, it's Jimmy's call, he's the one who bounced you. Apologies are always a good thing.

Not sure if it is helpful, but someone in another thread said yesterday, he might consider selling a soundcraft 24 channel board. I know next to nothing about those boards, just thought it was coincidental. I don't have a link readily available, so maybe browse through the forums.

Edit: Link provided...

https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...dio-question-loop-problem-392199/#post4437094

Hi,

thanks for the suggestion, but i think i'm gonna go ITB after i checked out the UAD plugins.

 

[RFR]

Isn't there a song like that...get what you want, get what you need....hmmm...?

"Can't always get what you want, but if you try some time you get what you need"
I tried to do a period correct cover of that. It was a failure,

I ain't no Keef, nor Mick .


All kidding aside, I'm cool with the OP being here.
The thread goes on. On a subject we're actually interested in.

Meltdown threads are fun in their own way, but then you get bored talking about the meltdown or the banned and it's forgotten.

Music, recording, gear talks live on. And everyone learns at least something.

Hey, I'd love a Neve too.

 

[miroslav]

... i think i'm gonna go ITB after i checked out the UAD plugins.

UAD makes top-notch stuff.

I was just busting your chops about Hair Metal...I'm sure everyone has tapped their foot and hummed along to at least one Hair Metal song back in the day. It was hard not to take notice of it, especially with all the women who loved that stuff....though I think they were mostly in love with, and jealous of, all that hair.

 

[RFR]

You kidding me? I loved hair metal. Not so much the music, that was ok and all.
But the chicks! I was in LA. Sunset strip. :thumbs up :

Never got laid so much in my life.

Good times! LA was vibrant, alive, and bustlng with energy.

Then Grunge hit and it became a graveyard.

It's recovered but it's different. Those were fun times.

 

[miroslav]

I dated a Vixen fanatic for awhile.
We didn't discuss music too much...but we had fun!

 

[sweetbeats]

Hi,

thanks for the suggestion, but i think i'm gonna go ITB after i checked out the UAD plugins.

Like has been said it will help what you work with ITB to have a good front end...some decent mics and some decent preamps. You might get this from a decent mixer or outboard preamps. Maybe you still try to find that decent smaller mixer. I shied away from suggesting the Tascam M-300 series because you were so adamant on a 24-track tape machine (the M-300 series only have 4 subgroups), but maybe you consider a hybrid studio like so many others here do...it gives you the power, ease and flexibility of the ITB world, but the tactile work process and additional possibilities of the analog medium...and typically involves an analog mixer with a smaller footprint (since you don't typically need as many subgroups or channels), and a smaller capacity multitrack machine (like a 1/2" 8-track...the track width on a 1/2" 8-track is really close to 2" 24-track, but SO much easier to maintain and to house and find tape...MUCH more affordable) and maybe a mastering halftrack machine. It can be overwhelming just dealing with the wiring for a 16 or 24 group desk and a 24 track tape machine. So, back to the Tascam M-300 series...I have consistently found these mixers to be reliable, great sounding, and with a great feature set...there are things you don't know about in terms of how these things were built and corners they began cutting in the late 80s and 90s...smaller pots with plastic shafts...horizontal PC board wave-solder construction with surface-mount parts instead of vertical per-channel boards with through-hole components...I think the M-300 mixers are a tremendous bang for the buck, but they are 4 subgroup boards...which is perfectly fine for project studio and 8-track tape or DAW front end. The M-308 is easier to haul round and to find room for in your home. The M-312 adds 4 more input channels and a well-featured talkback and monitor section, as well as two additional AUX busses on the group sends/monitor returns, but is that much bigger and heavier. The M-300 was made before they really started shrinking the control surface real-estate on project studio mixers (which was done to reduce costs). This means more weight and size, but much easier to find your away around and get your fingers around the controls. And they sound great and can be much more easily worked on and repaired, etc. Look for the 'B' models which include phantom power.

You could also jump into something like this: Soundcraft Series 800B Vintage Mixer | eBay

These are a respectable modular constructed board...a studio and live workhorse that is respected and pretty well supported to this day...good sound..but way beyond your size and weight considerations. And what likely happens when you get something like this is it needs work...you can find them already gone through but you pay the price. If you find one that needs some work, a mixer of that size has a lot of circuitry to go through and troubleshoot. It takes time and money and I just want you to think about whether you want to spend weeks/months/years going through your mixer and getting it back into shape, or making music. I've spent years doing the former...you might have more time than I do to plow through getting your gear you find into shape...but its taking me years and years.

So I'm just trying to offer some options that might keep your analog possibilities open with an affordable but effective hybrid approach. I think the Tascam M-308B and TSR-8 would make a great analog partner to a DAW setup...relatively compact, well built and featured, and good sounding...affordable.

 

[RFR]

Haha.

I had a buddy who was a security guard at the Troubadour. Eddie and Michael showed up to check out some band.

"Big Ron " took a break and told me to guard the Maserati parked right out front.

So I sat on the fender.
Man, I i got a lot of numbers. Lol


Edit: this was in relation to Miro's post. I see we're back on topic now.

I'll cease with going down memory lane and return to the subject at hand.

 

[RFR]

Hi,

thanks for the suggestion, but i think i'm gonna go ITB after i checked out the UAD plugins.

What caused the change of heart after the previous fighting against the suggestions?

 

[Kurkkumopo]

Like has been said it will help what you work with ITB to have a good front end...some decent mics and some decent preamps. You might get this from a decent mixer or outboard preamps. Maybe you still try to find that decent smaller mixer. I shied away from suggesting the Tascam M-300 series because you were so adamant on a 24-track tape machine (the M-300 series only have 4 subgroups), but maybe you consider a hybrid studio like so many others here do...it gives you the power, ease and flexibility of the ITB world, but the tactile work process and additional possibilities of the analog medium...and typically involves an analog mixer with a smaller footprint (since you don't typically need as many subgroups or channels), and a smaller capacity multitrack machine (like a 1/2" 8-track...the track width on a 1/2" 8-track is really close to 2" 24-track, but SO much easier to maintain and to house and find tape...MUCH more affordable) and maybe a mastering halftrack machine. It can be overwhelming just dealing with the wiring for a 16 or 24 group desk and a 24 track tape machine. So, back to the Tascam M-300 series...I have consistently found these mixers to be reliable, great sounding, and with a great feature set...there are things you don't know about in terms of how these things were built and corners they began cutting in the late 80s and 90s...smaller pots with plastic shafts...horizontal PC board wave-solder construction with surface-mount parts instead of vertical per-channel boards with through-hole components...I think the M-300 mixers are a tremendous bang for the buck, but they are 4 subgroup boards...which is perfectly fine for project studio and 8-track tape or DAW front end. The M-308 is easier to haul round and to find room for in your home. The M-312 adds 4 more input channels and a well-featured talkback and monitor section, as well as two additional AUX busses on the group sends/monitor returns, but is that much bigger and heavier. The M-300 was made before they really started shrinking the control surface real-estate on project studio mixers (which was done to reduce costs). This means more weight and size, but much easier to find your away around and get your fingers around the controls. And they sound great and can be much more easily worked on and repaired, etc. Look for the 'B' models which include phantom power.

You could also jump into something like this: Soundcraft Series 800B Vintage Mixer | eBay

These are a respectable modular constructed board...a studio and live workhorse that is respected and pretty well supported to this day...good sound..but way beyond your size and weight considerations. And what likely happens when you get something like this is it needs work...you can find them already gone through but you pay the price. If you find one that needs some work, a mixer of that size has a lot of circuitry to go through and troubleshoot. It takes time and money and I just want you to think about whether you want to spend weeks/months/years going through your mixer and getting it back into shape, or making music. I've spent years doing the former...you might have more time than I do to plow through getting your gear you find into shape...but its taking me years and years.

So I'm just trying to offer some options that might keep your analog possibilities open with an affordable but effective hybrid approach. I think the Tascam M-308B and TSR-8 would make a great analog partner to a DAW setup...relatively compact, well built and featured, and good sounding...affordable.

Good mics are at least very important, i was thinking something maybe sm57/sm58 and neumann u87 for the amp, can you use the neumann u87 for vocals too?

I was thinking that i could actually do the mixing and mastering also virtually/ITB if that's possible. And i don't think i need the tsr-8 as i actually liked the UAD Struder A800 plugin and other tape plugins like ampex etc. Might be also that i go more Hi-fi in the end and don't even get the tape machine plugin in the first place.

I will get the preamps as plugins too from UAD, they're just that amazing.

Probably only hardware will be the interface, my amp, mics and maybe few sound modules like roland jv-1080 and e-mu vintage keys, couldn't find emulations from those but they luckily cost as much as a 1 plugin so that's good.

 

[Chili]

thanks for the suggestion, but i think i'm gonna go ITB after i checked out the UAD plugins.

Good deal. I've got the Apollo and it is an absolute must-have if you're going the UAD route. A lot of the plugs interact with the hardware, setting input impedance or preamp gain, making it more than just emulation. I bought the Ampeg SVT3-Pro plug and it sounds great. Much better than IK Multimedia ampeg plug.

I spent most of the 80s either in Hawaii listening to Hawaiian Slack-Key or in a submarine listening to nothing. Never got into hair metal or glam rock or whatever it was called. Guys wearing mascara and pumping up their hair like my sister was just too funny/weird for my tastes, and it didn't help the music any. By the time I got out of the navy, grunge was coming on the scene then I moved to Austin and got into the whole Austin music scene. I am sure glad I missed the 80s entirely.

 

[sweetbeats]

I really liked quite a lot of 80's hard rock, and alternative metal.

Just now the song "I Wanna Be Your Man" by L.A. Guns popped into my head:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRjxUVsZu8k

I like overall sound of that song...the textures...and the tempo and feel moves along nicely.

I also really liked RATT...Bobby Blotzer really made e-drums work in hard rock. Round And Round is iconic in my book...RATT was progressive in its sound IMO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u8teXR8VE4

Zooming forward a little I was really into Winger...great lineup and progressive approach in the rhythm section with Rod Morgenstein and his fusion background:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlN3oEjMpUQ

 

[miroslav]

... a great analog partner to a DAW setup...

These days, trying to put together a decent analog studio is not easy or cheap, if you want all the trimmings and you want to do full-tilt productions all in the analog domain.
Unless you have the $$$ to do it right, at best, you end up with a basic analog rig, which is OK too, but then you need to change your perspective to a more "lo-fi" approach, which can be fun...but for anything more involved, you would most likely still need other analog items.

Some of us here have been at it for awhile...so we already have those other analog items...stuff that's been acquired over many years. For someone starting out, and who wants some analog flavors...get the DAW thing going and then you can add more analog front end items, including the tape deck and console etc, as needed and as budget permits.
At least with the DAW setup in full swing, you can do full productions, and by expanding to a hybrid analog/digital configuration, you can have the best of both worlds and not feel like you are still in need of a lot of analog hardware.

It is primarily a budget thing...but also a time/ease of use thing also. Hardware often needs more attention, and sometimes maintenance, and then you need to wire it all, and that can get unruly too.
For the guy who has the big budget, he can do whatever he wants, as big as he wants...but for a limited budget, the focus is about building a really good working rig so you can get your music recorded in the best way possible with the budget you have.

 

[Kurkkumopo]

What caused the change of heart after the previous fighting against the suggestions?

How would i explain this.

It started first when i was checking out the UAD plugins, when i saw this video, it really set me off as i was really convinced that the difference is so small to the hardware that i had to listen very carefully to hear the minor difference so i didn't even care for the hardware anymore and wanted to for plugins after all:




I was also listening some 90's europop music and remembered that they were always produced with computers and pro tools and few digital sound modules next to them like the roland jv-1080 and they had the exact sound too. Then i was like that if they got the sound that i want with computers from 90's, i'll surely get it with a computer from nowadays, it was a no brainer after that to go ITB.

Hopefully that made some sense. D:

 

[sweetbeats]

Good mics are at least very important, i was thinking something maybe sm57/sm58 and neumann u87 for the amp, can you use the neumann u87 for vocals too?

I was thinking that i could actually do the mixing and mastering also virtually/ITB if that's possible. And i don't think i need the tsr-8 as i actually liked the UAD Struder A800 plugin and other tape plugins like ampex etc. Might be also that i go more Hi-fi in the end and don't even get the tape machine plugin in the first place.

I will get the preamps as plugins too from UAD, they're just that amazing.

Probably only hardware will be the interface, my amp, mics and maybe few sound modules like roland jv-1080 and e-mu vintage keys, couldn't find emulations from those but they luckily cost as much as a 1 plugin so that's good.

You'll find Shure SM57/58 mics in just about any mic locker...good mics, great price, workhorse go-to options as far as small diaphragm dynamic. Other mainstay options on my list would be Sennheiser 421 (large diaphragm dynamic...toms, instrument), AKG 414 (large diaphragm condenser), Audix D-6 (large diaphragm dynamic for bass cab or kick drum), and my brother has a pair of Shure KSM44s...they sound amazing...they are pricey relatively speaking but wow...side by side use with Shure SM7B (also very nice) and Studio Projects B3 and the KSM44 was a clear winner...the scenario was drum overheads straight to digital performer through a MOTU 8M.

 

[Kurkkumopo]

UAD makes top-notch stuff.

I was just busting your chops about Hair Metal...I'm sure everyone has tapped their foot and hummed along to at least one Hair Metal song back in the day. It was hard not to take notice of it, especially with all the women who loved that stuff....though I think they were mostly in love with, and jealous of, all that hair.

Ah it's fine, i should've taken that in a friendly manner instead getting all ballistic, it was just a friendly joking in the end. D:

And yeah, tho i'm not like posing and dressing like them, i just like the music in general. I'm not too fond of the big hair and all the spandex and glam either tbh..