BroKen_H
Re-member
Funny, I always upload uncompressed 24 bit wav files to Soundcloud. They don't have a size limit, only time. They still come out somewhat swirly...
R
Robus
Well-known member
It might even be worse that way. SC applies some kind of heavy compression routine, so the less compressed the upload, the more it might be getting. It's a shame that a music streaming site like SC can't find a way to make the music sound better.
heatmiser
mr. green christmas
Hi. I listened earlier tonight in the car and again just now on my tracking phones. I probably don't have anything new for you, as I just read through the thread and agree with most of what you're getting fit feedback.
I'll try anyway...lol
I thought all of the guitar parts were captured well. Bass sounds good. Drums sound pretty good although I felt the tone of the snare was a bit dark for this maybe? I'm wanting a lighter, snappier tone myself, but just a taste thing there.
The electric guitars in particular sounded nice. When the electric on the right first came in I felt the level on those first few notes could be lower. It was a little jarring for just a second, but settled in nicely after that.
The vocals actually are clearer for me through the phones than in the car earlier. In the car, the various harmony/supporting tracks just felt a bit jumbled in terms of timing. I wanted to hear your voice more clearly at times even though level-wise it seemed sufficient.
If you could clean up the timing on the various vocal tracks, make the lead vocal more the center of attention, and ideally, sing it again with more conviction, I think you might really be in business.
As is, it's still very good though. Don't mean to suggest otherwise.
I'll try anyway...lol
I thought all of the guitar parts were captured well. Bass sounds good. Drums sound pretty good although I felt the tone of the snare was a bit dark for this maybe? I'm wanting a lighter, snappier tone myself, but just a taste thing there.
The electric guitars in particular sounded nice. When the electric on the right first came in I felt the level on those first few notes could be lower. It was a little jarring for just a second, but settled in nicely after that.
The vocals actually are clearer for me through the phones than in the car earlier. In the car, the various harmony/supporting tracks just felt a bit jumbled in terms of timing. I wanted to hear your voice more clearly at times even though level-wise it seemed sufficient.
If you could clean up the timing on the various vocal tracks, make the lead vocal more the center of attention, and ideally, sing it again with more conviction, I think you might really be in business.
As is, it's still very good though. Don't mean to suggest otherwise.
easlern
Boredom artist
Instruments sound great Ray, I think the double tracking might be taking away from the audibility though. Each take is a little bit off, causing the differences to compound so I can't really understand the lyrics. During the bridge before the instrumental, things are too buried to understand. The background vocals I would push back quite a bit, they kind of compete with the lead right now, that may be the real cause of the issue with audibility.
Great songwriting as always!
Great songwriting as always!
R
Robus
Well-known member
Thanks Nick. I did some editing of the double and harmony vocals last night. I think they are neater now. When I get my voice back, I'll do one more take on the lead vocal. That bridge before the solo was supposed to be just harmony. The lead vocal had sung the line twice already, and I figured that was enough. Should I kill the vocals there and make it instrumental?
easlern
Boredom artist
I like them, if there's a way to get them to poke out a bit more I think it wouldn't hurt. Just having them there adds to the interest though so I would keep them in any case.
GONZO-X
Well-known member
hey robus,
really nice mellow vibe on this.
and i really dig the guitar tones,
all of that is good..
bass is nice and full...
i like the kit approach, and dry is fine.
again, it's beating a horse,
but the vox, as inspired as they are, just miss the mark.
i like the harmonies, but the dual lead vox moments just feel too loose...
when you track vox,
even if you have to drop in every line,
make sure that the vocal line feeds the mic at a very consistent level... required working the mic,
or doing hand automation of all the levels...
if you whisper, you eat the mic, then mix the levels hot...
if you scream, you back off the mic, and bring the level down while mixing..
but being tentative in the mic, means you are not committing.
if you want to use the vox tracks as they are..
i'd try some aggressive automation on the lead vox to keep it consistent along with some compression to help the vox level stay nice and even...
you want dynamics in your music, and in the vox, but you don't want the vox levels to drift in and out,
and you especially don't want them to be too loud to compensate for poor tracking levels,
which is what it sounds to me.
solo guitar sounds great
back on the vox,
i'd try automating the 2nd track that is doing the same thing as the lead vox,
and whenever the 2nd one hits the same notes as the lead,
i'd just take it right out.
there will be an obvious 'arrangement' choice with the backing vox's, where you can bring them in and out where they complement the most..
but aggressively mix the lead vox so that it is always on top, but NOT too loud... hence the compression and automation suggestions...
really nice mellow vibe on this.
and i really dig the guitar tones,
all of that is good..
bass is nice and full...
i like the kit approach, and dry is fine.
again, it's beating a horse,
but the vox, as inspired as they are, just miss the mark.
i like the harmonies, but the dual lead vox moments just feel too loose...
when you track vox,
even if you have to drop in every line,
make sure that the vocal line feeds the mic at a very consistent level... required working the mic,
or doing hand automation of all the levels...
if you whisper, you eat the mic, then mix the levels hot...
if you scream, you back off the mic, and bring the level down while mixing..
but being tentative in the mic, means you are not committing.
if you want to use the vox tracks as they are..
i'd try some aggressive automation on the lead vox to keep it consistent along with some compression to help the vox level stay nice and even...
you want dynamics in your music, and in the vox, but you don't want the vox levels to drift in and out,
and you especially don't want them to be too loud to compensate for poor tracking levels,
which is what it sounds to me.
solo guitar sounds great
back on the vox,
i'd try automating the 2nd track that is doing the same thing as the lead vox,
and whenever the 2nd one hits the same notes as the lead,
i'd just take it right out.
there will be an obvious 'arrangement' choice with the backing vox's, where you can bring them in and out where they complement the most..
but aggressively mix the lead vox so that it is always on top, but NOT too loud... hence the compression and automation suggestions...
R
Robus
Well-known member
Thanks Gonzo. Helpful as always. I've done some nipping and tucking on the harmonies, but it's all waiting for a new lead vocal take. I came down with a cold in the middle of tracking this song, so the holdup is regaining my voice. I totally agree with your comments. I love vocal harmonies in my music. But man, is the editing a chore! Yeah, the tracking levels on the lead vocal are inconsistent. I've got a solid gain structure on the input chain, but my own performance lacks consistency.
I intended that dual lead vox to be a double, so if you're hearing it, then I need to drop the level more.
I intended that dual lead vox to be a double, so if you're hearing it, then I need to drop the level more.
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Bubba po
Tiny Stonehenge Moment
Just curious, Robus - do you compress on the way in? Try it on the input FX when recording. If I'm doing a lively vocal, I track at between 3:1 and 5:1 comp ratio with a medium fast attack and release. It doesn't affect the sound, it just means you can "go for it" more.
I think the timing looseness you get on the extra vocals is just peculiar to your vocal tracks. You don't have timing issues when you record your guitars, so I'm a bit nonplussed as to why you dont carry that appreciation of timing over to your vocals. They are an instrument, and they need to be in time with each other just the same as everything else.
I think the timing looseness you get on the extra vocals is just peculiar to your vocal tracks. You don't have timing issues when you record your guitars, so I'm a bit nonplussed as to why you dont carry that appreciation of timing over to your vocals. They are an instrument, and they need to be in time with each other just the same as everything else.
R
Robus
Well-known member
Just curious, Robus - do you compress on the way in? Try it on the input FX when recording. If I'm doing a lively vocal, I track at between 3:1 and 5:1 comp ratio with a medium fast attack and release. It doesn't affect the sound, it just means you can "go for it" more.
I think the timing looseness you get on the extra vocals is just peculiar to your vocal tracks. You don't have timing issues when you record your guitars, so I'm a bit nonplussed as to why you dont carry that appreciation of timing over to your vocals. They are an instrument, and they need to be in time with each other just the same as everything else.
Thanks Bubba. You're right about all that.
I do compress on the way in. The microphone preamp signal goes to my Pro VLA II compressor, and then to the audio interface. I set the compressor to a 4:1 ratio, but bump the threshold up until I'm only getting about a 2-3 dB gain reduction. I'm afraid to do anything more radical than that on the input side, as I will be adding more compression ITB during the mix. Like you, I use a medium fast attack and release. It sounds like you are doing a little more compression on the input side. I'll try that.
I hear you about the timing. It's practice mostly. I've been playing guitar for over thirty years--really I should be a lot better than I am by now, but I am competent. The singing is a recent thing, so I'm at a level on vocals where I was decades ago on guitar. And I'm starting at an age when my vocal chords aren't getting any more flexible. Realistically, if I can make baby steps forward with each song, I'm happy. And I'm totally open to collaboration with any singer.
GONZO-X
Well-known member
the ratio, is almost not as important, as dialing in the attack and release times.
more important than all else, is teaching yourself to give a consistent vocal performance.
try recording only one line at a time...
or just a verse.....
chorus....
etc.
if your DAW is setup correctly, you can do 'loops', and do multiple takes, back to back, capturing each as a single track,
then choose the best one to keep later
more important than all else, is teaching yourself to give a consistent vocal performance.
try recording only one line at a time...
or just a verse.....
chorus....
etc.
if your DAW is setup correctly, you can do 'loops', and do multiple takes, back to back, capturing each as a single track,
then choose the best one to keep later
R
Robus
Well-known member
Thanks Gonzo. I always appreciate your suggestions. You gave me a good piece of advice on singing a few songs back, which was to focus on nailing the first word of a line.
My system is very close to what you suggest. I tend to go verse by verse, unless it's a punch-in. I set the DAW to loop over the section of the song and sing five or six takes back-to-back without stopping. They are all on the same track, but Reaper keeps them as separate takes. Then I'll comp together the best bits. If I'm doing a double on the vocal, I'll copy the whole thing to another track, delete the takes that I used for the lead vocal, and comp out the best of the rest for the double.
Harmony vocals the same--usually nine takes--three high, three low, and three around the third of the chord. Then I'll bust those out to three or four separate tracks and comp.
My system is very close to what you suggest. I tend to go verse by verse, unless it's a punch-in. I set the DAW to loop over the section of the song and sing five or six takes back-to-back without stopping. They are all on the same track, but Reaper keeps them as separate takes. Then I'll comp together the best bits. If I'm doing a double on the vocal, I'll copy the whole thing to another track, delete the takes that I used for the lead vocal, and comp out the best of the rest for the double.
Harmony vocals the same--usually nine takes--three high, three low, and three around the third of the chord. Then I'll bust those out to three or four separate tracks and comp.
BroKen_H
Re-member
My voice is nothing special. Sometimes, after the initial take I'll sit and play with the vocal and change minor things about the vocal line. Then while they're still fresh I'll overdub some of the lines. The resulting track most times sounds like poo. But then I'll practice it for 10-14 days until I've got it fairly solid (for me), and then sing it in from breath to breath, doing exactly what you described. Set the left and right, loop on and sing 5-6 takes per. Sometimes that takes a few days if my voice doesn't hold up. It's always fun grabbing little snippets of vocal and adjusting levels because they were recorded in 3 sessions over 2 days. 
The difference in tone is usually unnoticeable, but if I get some bad lines (tone is off from the rest), I'll have to do them over again.
I can remember going into studio to record on tape and nailing performances on the first try...oh to be 25 again. On the other hand, my bass and piano playing are actually a bit better now, and I didn't even play guitar then...
The difference in tone is usually unnoticeable, but if I get some bad lines (tone is off from the rest), I'll have to do them over again. I can remember going into studio to record on tape and nailing performances on the first try...oh to be 25 again. On the other hand, my bass and piano playing are actually a bit better now, and I didn't even play guitar then...
Chili
Site Moderator
I listened to Mix #4 then read some comments. Most people spoke on the vocal delivery and arrangement already, but I'll add my thoughts. In the arrangement, I suggest you start the vocal out with just one lead vocal track. Nothing doubled and no harmonies. This will help transition into the verse and also build the song up as it goes. Bring them in one at a time in each section after the 1st verse or maybe even the 1st chorus.
I am not a fan of doubled lead vocals in any song. If it isn't done exactly perfect, it doesn't come across good. It sounds like two people stepping on each other. I've tried doubled lead vocals myself and never liked the results. I think it takes a lot of skill to maintain the exact timing from one take to the next. There are a few people here who can pull it off, but I know I'm not one of them. I say stick to one lead vocal track.
The harmonies seem to be stepping all over the lead vocal track, too. And they meander. I get the vibe of the song is very laid back (which I like a lot), but you still have to keep the harmonies well thought out and tight.
The instrumental tracks were done nicely. Very clean and great tones. Nothing to suggest for those.
The few songs I've heard from you are great. I like the stuff you're putting out. Soon enough, you'll have a complete collection and will be them on a CD. Let us know when.
I am not a fan of doubled lead vocals in any song. If it isn't done exactly perfect, it doesn't come across good. It sounds like two people stepping on each other. I've tried doubled lead vocals myself and never liked the results. I think it takes a lot of skill to maintain the exact timing from one take to the next. There are a few people here who can pull it off, but I know I'm not one of them. I say stick to one lead vocal track.
The harmonies seem to be stepping all over the lead vocal track, too. And they meander. I get the vibe of the song is very laid back (which I like a lot), but you still have to keep the harmonies well thought out and tight.
The instrumental tracks were done nicely. Very clean and great tones. Nothing to suggest for those.
The few songs I've heard from you are great. I like the stuff you're putting out. Soon enough, you'll have a complete collection and will be them on a CD. Let us know when.
fat_fleet
Swollen Member
Hi Ray. Getting to this a bit late and scanning the comments, I'm afraid I can't say much that hasn't been said already.
Your lead vox is still a little shaky, everything else sounds pretty good to me. I actually like the backing vox here. There were a couple places while listening where I was like "OMG a FLUTE!", but it was actually your falsetto "Ahhhhhhh" in the left speaker.. and there were places where it seemed like your backing vocals were mimicking and blending with other instruments in the arrangement. Not sure if that was intentional. But I like their looseness, and I have a feeling that was.
Your lead vox is still a little shaky, everything else sounds pretty good to me. I actually like the backing vox here. There were a couple places while listening where I was like "OMG a FLUTE!", but it was actually your falsetto "Ahhhhhhh" in the left speaker.. and there were places where it seemed like your backing vocals were mimicking and blending with other instruments in the arrangement. Not sure if that was intentional. But I like their looseness, and I have a feeling that was.
jimistone
long standing member
sorry I'm just now getting to this Robus. Everything sounds great to me man. nice and clean, no timing issues, and I don't hear anything that needs eqing.
My only suggestion is to try to get a stronger vocal performance. The current one isn't bad but I think you could do better. Do 5 or 6 passes and record them all....experiment with phrasing and melody.....then cut and paste a killer vocal track.
I would try that before doubling the vocal
nice work!
My only suggestion is to try to get a stronger vocal performance. The current one isn't bad but I think you could do better. Do 5 or 6 passes and record them all....experiment with phrasing and melody.....then cut and paste a killer vocal track.
I would try that before doubling the vocal
nice work!
Simon Fanta
New member
I would edit the backing vocals better to line them up with the lead vocals.
ibleedburgundy
The Anti-Lambo
I really like the ones on the solo guitar.
Doubled vocals seem a bit obscured. I am wondering if a single track there would be better.
Doubled vocals seem a bit obscured. I am wondering if a single track there would be better.