Feedback on Alternative Mix please? "Waiting"

  • Thread starter Thread starter andrushkiwt
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andrushkiwt said:
The "translation" would have suited just fine to begin with. Thank you, this was an excellent critique and I appreciate the time you took to listen and write that out.

The only things in the mix with freqs lower than 50 Hz are the kicks, but I do hear things getting lost in the chorus as well, youre right. Those guitars are bussed and the low cut is at 85Hz. I bet the bass is giving the chorus the crowded feel and possibly the kick too? I did not sidechain those, as I sometimes do. Simply forgot. And yes, the master has some limiting and a very small amount of mbc (1.3:1 I think) on each band except for the highs (1.4). When I remove all these things, it's miserably quiet. Also, I'd rather not remove the extra guitars...one set plays lower, one plays octaves, and the other is a lead set. I'd like to learn how to glue these together better rather than remove them. I have the sound in my head, I just need to get it out the way I hear it

In honesty, I enjoyed my "mix" better than I did my "master", but too many friends/listeners were saying the tracks were too quiet...so, here I am trying to make this damn thing louder without losing anything or smashing it to bits. I invested in the equipment to learn to do these things without a studio, so I'm going to do just that.

I'll try out the things you said, I really appreciate your thoughts kc, thank you
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tbh I have limited experience with guitars, I play and record them but Im drawn mostly to electronic music

this may get the "real" guitarists up in arms....and my mixes do tend to be quite dark but other than the kick and bass I cut everything from around 125-175khz hard...I dont need any of the frequencies beneath that...and vocals Im tempted to cut even higher

i want anything beneath that not to interfere with my bass or kick...I also tend to cut the high frequencies out and boost the mid highs instead...stops that fizz that most hobbyist mixers get. My mixes arent perfect but even on cans I can get them in the ball park

also most of my stuff is hardware through preamps now...I always found software needed more layers and ate up too much space because of this. Nebula and some of the Alex B libraries helped this. check out Solitary on my soundcloud, none of that's using hardware preamps, just nebula, and its got an analog desk sound imo. It does glue mixes together better.
 
kcearl said:
also most of my stuff is hardware through preamps now...I always found software needed more layers and ate up too much space because of this. Nebula and some of the Alex B libraries helped this. check out Solitary on my soundcloud, none of that's using hardware preamps, just nebula, and its got an analog desk sound imo. It does glue mixes together better.
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i'll check this out. ty
 
Just had a listen :)

After all the fuss about how it was un-listenable rubbish..well, a sense of proportionality wouldn't go far wrong around here. I didn't think it was bad at all. This is Home Recording, not 'lets-pretend-we-are-all-super-pro-funland'.

The guitars sound kinda...recessed? Veiled? Im trying to find the right adjective for them. They occupy the right spaces in the mix , but they don't sound as defined as I like (personal opinion mind).

Had a quick play with my desk EQ - 1.5k gives some buzz and definition on the guitars (surprise surprise). There's room for more mid-range beef somewhere in there too.

Still, good work, nice track :)
 
Jake_JW said:
Just had a listen :)

After all the fuss about how it was un-listenable rubbish..well, a sense of proportionality wouldn't go far wrong around here. I didn't think it was bad at all. This is Home Recording, not 'lets-pretend-we-are-all-super-pro-funland'.
Click to expand...

Definitely not top-notch, but still... maybe then you can understand why i reacted that way. i mean, i'm trying with what i've got and i'm down for any useful advice/comments - that's why i post here. i'll know better when to get involved or not in the future, even though this isn't the fist time it's happened.

toss some presence into the guitars? and yes, even though the low-mid/mid cuts are small, they might be dulling that area. thanks for pointing it out.
 
Hey man,
Just listening now. Is this a slower version that I've heard before?
I like the new harmonies you've added. I'm pretty sure I haven't heard them before. The singing is really good overall.

The vocals do sound over-processed to me, in general. What all have you got on the vocal track?
I read something about de-essers earlier. Delays and reverbs can really add to the problem if you have sibilance to start with. Compression too...
If you think it's a problem, temporarily disable all the vocal effects and listen to the S sounds dry. You can either use a de-esser, manual volume automation, or different tracking techniques (mics, positions etc) to eradicate it.
If you can be sure it's not a problem at the source then it won't be a problem in the mix. ;)

The guitar tones when it all kicks in are probably the main thing to work at.
They don't have that wall-of-sound feel for me. Maybe too much gain, given that you're recording so many layers?
That's something to try anyway.


One or two times the timing caught my ear. The chuggs at about 1:22 and 2:19 sound a bit early.

I like the guitar ambience on the intro and at 2:40 ish. They're pretty cool man. :)
 
Steenamaroo said:
Hey man,
Just listening now. Is this a slower version that I've heard before?
I like the new harmonies you've added. I'm pretty sure I haven't heard them before. The singing is really good overall.

The vocals do sound over-processed to me, in general. What all have you got on the vocal track?
I read something about de-essers earlier. Delays and reverbs can really add to the problem if you have sibilance to start with. Compression too...
If you think it's a problem, temporarily disable all the vocal effects and listen to the S sounds dry. You can either use a de-esser, manual volume automation, or different tracking techniques (mics, positions etc) to eradicate it.
If you can be sure it's not a problem at the source then it won't be a problem in the mix. ;)

The guitar tones when it all kicks in are probably the main thing to work at.
They don't have that wall-of-sound feel for me. Maybe too much gain, given that you're recording so many layers?
That's something to try anyway.


One or two times the timing caught my ear. The chuggs at about 1:22 and 2:19 sound a bit early.

I like the guitar ambience on the intro and at 2:40 ish. They're pretty cool man. :)
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Thank you, though i feel you're being a bit too kind given the earlier circumstances...ha. i appreciate it though.

there are about 8 vocals tracks, including chorus tracks, 2 separate delay tracks, and 2 harmony tracks. for the most part, the vocals tracks only have slight EQ, though the buss contains the verb and a delay as well. i agree the verb is heavy, the delay adds to it, and the sibilance is too much. The processing sound probably comes from the things i mentioned in addition to one track that has a stereo chorus - i upped the settings of how fast/deep that chorus effect runs, so it's a warbly kind of sound instead of straight forward. i probably overdid it. better tracking and takes would have helped, but the buss chain needs reexamining.

for the guitars, i'm always called out on my gain level, so i turned it down a bit, but i'll have to look at turning it down more if there are more tracks i guess. and yes, i really think the quiet parts came out much better. thanks dude
 
Something to think about re. sibilance / plosives etc. I'm not alone here in eschewing de-essers etc and favouring manual volume reduction / notching as a solution. You can cut quite deeply and still get the "feel" of the word but not so much of the nasty stuff. Yes, it takes time, but...

Try it on a particular spot. May work for you...
 
Armistice said:
Something to think about re. sibilance / plosives etc. I'm not alone here in eschewing de-essers etc and favouring manual volume reduction / notching as a solution. You can cut quite deeply and still get the "feel" of the word but not so much of the nasty stuff. Yes, it takes time, but...

Try it on a particular spot. May work for you...
Click to expand...

I use manual volume control throughout the song, but not on the parts you're mentioning for that reason. Interesting. I'll give it a try, thanks
 
andrushkiwt said:
Definitely not top-notch, but still... maybe then you can understand why i reacted that way. i mean, i'm trying with what i've got and i'm down for any useful advice/comments - that's why i post here. i'll know better when to get involved or not in the future, even though this isn't the fist time it's happened.

toss some presence into the guitars? and yes, even though the low-mid/mid cuts are small, they might be dulling that area. thanks for pointing it out.
Click to expand...

Well, I have no interest in getting into personal beef, I'm sure there are valid points both ways but that was my 2p (hey, I'm english). You do alright if you dont get drawn into arguements ;)

The guitars lose definition a bit around 1k (too much gain?), but there is room below that.

The vocals sounded fine to me (ish), the sibilance wasn't too loud, but it seemed smeared around or prolonged by something (compression maybe?) so it seemed accentuated.
 
I know I'm joining this late, but I think the song and mix are very appropriate for this genre. I don't know if you've corrected the problems you mentioned previously or not, but I'm not hearing them.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: I can't help wonder how much the previous responses are influenced by the system/speakers the song is being listened to over. If you think about it, what this forum is attempting to do is pretty amazing - people giving comments, help, suggestions, criticism, etc.... all while listening over innumerable systems and combinations of speakers, amplifiers, in a variety of rooms, etc....all of which influences the sound of the song! If we could all listen to the same song in the same room with the same speaker, then the comments would truly be fascinating! Maybe it should be understood that when someone comments on a song mix that the disclaimer "the comments which follow are based on what I hear on my system in my imperfect listening environment with my ears which have been through hell!"

Getting back to the song after my digression, as always I'm impressed by your vocals and songwriting. You have the ability to write a "hook," which to me is a gift. I grew up in the days of AM radio and the hook was what kept you listening. You can write a hook! I don't hear problems with the song at all - maybe you corrected them? I don't know.

The mix is good. The performance is good. The energy is good. The song is good. If I could hear something wrong, I'd tell you. That's all I've got to say for now.
 
fireflyva said:
I know I'm joining this late, but I think the song and mix are very appropriate for this genre. I don't know if you've corrected the problems you mentioned previously or not, but I'm not hearing them.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: I can't help wonder how much the previous responses are influenced by the system/speakers the song is being listened to over. If you think about it, what this forum is attempting to do is pretty amazing - people giving comments, help, suggestions, criticism, etc.... all while listening over innumerable systems and combinations of speakers, amplifiers, in a variety of rooms, etc....all of which influences the sound of the song! If we could all listen to the same song in the same room with the same speaker, then the comments would truly be fascinating! Maybe it should be understood that when someone comments on a song mix that the disclaimer "the comments which follow are based on what I hear on my system in my imperfect listening environment with my ears which have been through hell!"

Getting back to the song after my digression, as always I'm impressed by your vocals and songwriting. You have the ability to write a "hook," which to me is a gift. I grew up in the days of AM radio and the hook was what kept you listening. You can write a hook! I don't hear problems with the song at all - maybe you corrected them? I don't know.

The mix is good. The performance is good. The energy is good. The song is good. If I could hear something wrong, I'd tell you. That's all I've got to say for now.
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Thanks man. I'd add this: some people have been mixing for so long that things obvious to them are almost non identifiable to others. Sometimes they forget not everyone has been doing this for long - little over a year for me. Some guidance and direction would achieve more. I really want to learn how I can make the tracks pleasureable for more and more people.

Anyway, thank You for the hook comment. Thats the only reason I write anything. I enjoy coming up with hooks and attempting to get something stuck in someone's head. When I get a comment or message that my chorus was in someone's head all morning, that pretty much makes my day. Thanks man.

But still, I do want to improve these...maybe a non-stock amp sim will help. Ampire probably isn't the best.

Oh and no..I didn't change anything...that's the original track ... Yeah.
 
Ok, since some of the controversy has died down, I'll chime in.

I had actually a bunch of listens on a good home stereo system.

Here are my overall general observations.

First off, good tune. You're on to something. Good hook, memorable, and overall good songwriting and production.
Thats a good start.
; thumbs up:

Here's where it starts to fall apart.

Production seems to me to be the primary goal and focus here with recording and mixing being an afterthought.

Usually on my system, I leave all controls flat to hear the music uncolored. For this tune I had to engage tone controls and the loudness button to get any kind of bottom end and clarity.
In other words I was "mixing and mastering" your song to get it to sound good.
Normally, I just leave all controls flat and hit play.

Also I am not a fan of the "loudness" game, but I had to bring the level up considerably even to compare with other stuff on soundcould.

There is a lot going on in this tune and sometimes it sounded mushed together.

At times the vocals are great and at others very weak. I'm talking about how they sat in the mix.

With all the vocals and instrumentation on this tune, seperation and clarity is important. It in some ways sounded like a 4 track cassette demo.

You say, you've been at this a year. Well, I think you are off to a very good start.
Songwriting and production are good.

You just need to work on the recording and mix aspects more. I'd say it's a good
demo to put on the shelf and come back to a year later to re-record once you got some more experience under your belt.
Cheers.
:D
 
RFR said:
Ok, since some of the controversy has died down, I'll chime in.

I had actually a bunch of listens on a good home stereo system.

Here are my overall general observations.

First off, good tune. You're on to something. Good hook, memorable, and overall good songwriting and production.
Thats a good start.
; thumbs up:

Here's where it starts to fall apart.

Production seems to me to be the primary goal and focus here with recording and mixing being an afterthought.

Usually on my system, I leave all controls flat to hear the music uncolored. For this tune I had to engage tone controls and the loudness button to get any kind of bottom end and clarity.
In other words I was "mixing and mastering" your song to get it to sound good.
Normally, I just leave all controls flat and hit play.

Also I am not a fan of the "loudness" game, but I had to bring the level up considerably even to compare with other stuff on soundcould.

There is a lot going on in this tune and sometimes it sounded bet together.

At times the vocals are great and at others very weak. I'm talking about how they sat in the mix.

With all the vocals and instrumentation on this tune, seperation and clarity is important. It in some ways sounded like a 4 track cassette demo.

You say, you've been at this a year. Well, I think you are off to a very good start.
Songwriting and production are good.

You just need to work on the recording and mix aspects more. I'd say it's a good
demo to put on the shelf and come back to a year later to re-record once you got some more experience under your belt.
Cheers.
:D
Click to expand...

Nice observations. Thank you. I appreciate the time you took there and for giving such a thoughtful response.

Yes I totally agree...production is foremost in my mind. I have a million ideas for every song I write, I'm just not so great at putting those ideas into a clear, compact, always pleasant sound. I'm glad you enjoyed it regardless, and thank you for seeing through the mix and eyeing the song for what it is aside from its presentation.

Specific tips on low end Or clarity?
 
I don't know for specific tips. I don't have the individual tracks at hand to assess. I do know the old adage of "less is more" sometimes really applies.

Sometimes there is no way around something other than getting rid of parts that fight something else. I come from the old only have 16 or 24 tracks to work with school. With modern digital your track count is unlimited. You can add and add and add and add. It doesn't always make the song better, just adds more stuff to mush it all up. If you think of a mix like a parking lot at the mall, you can only park a car where there is a space.

As far as the low end, make sure to check it on multiple systems to see how it translates. The clarity I think is just too much stuff fighting for the same space.

You mentioned being very production oriented. That's good. However, part of production is seeing how things fit together. It's kind of like a puzzle, all the pieces have to fit.

:thumbs up:
 
Could be fun to post it in the mix this sub? I'm kinda interested to see what the raw tracks are like and I wonder what spin we can put on it. :D Not that I have any complaints about the original but I'm looking for stuff to practice with and why not this one.
 
easlern said:
Could be fun to post it in the mix this sub? I'm kinda interested to see what the raw tracks are like and I wonder what spin we can put on it. :D Not that I have any complaints about the original but I'm looking for stuff to practice with and why not this one.
Click to expand...

i tried that once with Steen...he did a good job, but i'm technologically challenged sometimes and i found it a pain in the arse to bounce all that stuff out and organize it. I think there's 30+ tracks as well......
 
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