Tascam 244 preamp

[4tracker]

Can you guys suggest a preamp to use with this machine, and do I have to reconfigure the jumpers to use a preamp with it? My ribbon mics are pretty low with the built in preamps.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Which ribbon mics are you using?

If they have built in preamps, I'm thinking they might be AT-4081s? Those require phantom power to power the built in preamp in the mic. Otherwise, most ribbons do not require phantom power and can actually be damaged by it.

Ribbons are also traditionally used for mic'ing up guitar cabinets or on drum overheads...two pretty loud sources which should require very little gain. If you're using them for those applications, you might not need a separate outboard preamp and maybe just a phantom power box if these are the AT mics I mentioned and an xlr to TS transformer adaptor plug to go straight into the 244's mic input. Also, when you turn the trim down on a 244 preamp, it effectively becomes a line level input so there's no need to make use of the accessory send receive ports to plug an external preamp in unless you're really ocd about bypassing one small gain stage.

As well, if you are genuinely needing an external preamp, you might want to specify a budget so that people can make more valid suggestions. No point in telling you to buy a Neve or something really exotic if its way out of your price range.

Cheers!

 

[4tracker]

Which ribbon mics are you using?

If they have built in preamps, I'm thinking they might be AT-4081s? Those require phantom power to power the built in preamp in the mic. Otherwise, most ribbons do not require phantom power and can actually be damaged by it.

Ribbons are also traditionally used for mic'ing up guitar cabinets or on drum overheads...two pretty loud sources which should require very little gain. If you're using them for those applications, you might not need a separate outboard preamp and maybe just a phantom power box if these are the AT mics I mentioned and an xlr to TS transformer adaptor plug to go straight into the 244's mic input. Also, when you turn the trim down on a 244 preamp, it effectively becomes a line level input so there's no need to make use of the accessory send receive ports to plug an external preamp in unless you're really ocd about bypassing one small gain stage.

As well, if you are genuinely needing an external preamp, you might want to specify a budget so that people can make more valid suggestions. No point in telling you to buy a Neve or something really exotic if its way out of your price range.

Cheers!

Thanks, I am using the LRM-1 Ribbon mics. They don't use phantom power. I'm using them mostly for soft, female vocals.

My max budget is about 1k, though I'd like to spend less, and I'd hope for 4 channels to match the 4-track.

I'm not sure if I'd benefit from a preamp or not. The ribbons seem pretty low, so I was thinking if I used a pre-amp I could reduce a little bit of noise. Maybe I am wrong. I'm no expert and kind of learning on the fly.

Thanks.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

I guess you've looked at this already?

Triton Audio Products, Hand Made in Holland - Available at NoHype Audio

The Triton Audio D-20 stereo rack unit is 900 British pounds and is what the LRM-1's manufacturer recommends for clean gain for this mic. If I was you, I might write to them, (No-Hype-Audio) and ask them if they can give you an alternate recommendation that better suits your budget. This is all pretty niche stuff and probably a bit beyond the average home recording enthusiast's knowledge...mine any way.

Cheers!

 

[famous beagle]

Do you ever foresee recording four signals all at once? I'm just asking because you mentioned you're mostly recording female vocals and, unless you need to record four sources at once, you don't need a 4-channel mic pre and could most likely get by with a 2-channel, of which there are many more available --- not to mention your budget would buy better quality if you only needed two channels instead of 4.

 

[4tracker]

Do you ever foresee recording four signals all at once? I'm just asking because you mentioned you're mostly recording female vocals and, unless you need to record four sources at once, you don't need a 4-channel mic pre and could most likely get by with a 2-channel, of which there are many more available --- not to mention your budget would buy better quality if you only needed two channels instead of 4.

2 channel would be okay, but we do a lot of live performances rather than tracking, so I want to incorporate room mics and such and maybe stereo mics on the guitar, so 4 would be ideal. Can I use two 2 channel?

I guess the bigger question is whether one can use a preamp with a 244 without going inside the machine and changing the jumpers. I have read conflicting info about it online. One guy said you had to bypass the internal preamps. Other people said you can plug right into it. I'll check the manual tonight. Dave would probably know, he seems like the 244 guru.

 

[famous beagle]

You don't have to reconfigure anything inside the machine unless you're unhappy with the sound. All you would do is plug your mic into the external pre and then run a 1/4" cable from it to the track input on the 244. Since you'll be coming in at line level, you'd turn the trim all the way down and just set the 244's track level by adjusting the output or gain on the external pre. Since you're not using any of the 244's preamp gain, the effect on the tone should be pretty negligible I'd imagine.

Yes you can use two 2-channel mic pres instead of one 4-channel. What I would suggest is getting a Presonus MP20 pre (two-channel), which can be had on eBay for about $165 right now (including shipping):

PreSonus MP20 Dual Channel Transformer Based Dual Servo Mic Preamp | eBay

Then do a search for the Jim Williams mod on it, which includes replacing some transformers and a few other opamps, etc. I think the mod will run about $100 altogether, and if you've ever fixed a back guitar jack or changed pickups, etc., you could do it.

In fact, here's the mod:

"Put the Jensen JT-11 input transformer in, it's only $30. Replace the 5534's with LT1357's or AD8597 or AD797 or OPA211. Replace the MC33079 quad surface mount with a LME49740MA. Replace the 5532 output opamp with a LM6172. Now it will kick UA's butt."

I've done this mod to mine, and it's an awesome pre now. It always a good deal for the money, but now it competes with my SCA N72 Neve clone preamp.

So you could do one of those and then maybe a different two-channel to give yourself more variety. The DBX 386 tube preamp (2-channel) sounds nice as well and can be had for around $250 or so on the Bay.

 

[Hammerstone]

I've used a Shure M67 mic mixer that's been converted to 4-channel outs, that sounds pretty good but I'll tell you now that you won't get any more level than the preamps built into the 244's mixer. Am I correct in thinking that you want to take the jumpers out of the back and use the RCA channel inputs?

 

[4tracker]

I've used a Shure M67 mic mixer that's been converted to 4-channel outs, that sounds pretty good but I'll tell you now that you won't get any more level than the preamps built into the 244's mixer.

Really? So I guess it's not worth it. Is there no way to get more clean gain for ribbon mics on a 244?

Am I correct in thinking that you want to take the jumpers out of the back and use the RCA channel inputs?

No, someone on the forum (I think username "Beck") once wrote that you need to remove the jumpers to simply use a preamp with this machine. Maybe I misinterpreted him.


Actually I found the threads:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...tape-and-gear/tascam-244-outboard-pre-263430/
https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener.../external-mic-preamp-use-tascam-244-a-342182/

I'm not sure what to make of all of it, whether I can use a preamp or not. What I am trying to do is just boost the ribbon mics; they are quite low with the 244 preamp.

 

[Hammerstone]

Yup, I checked, just make sure you're going into the RCA ins where you take out the jumpers.

 

[A Reel Person]

Hi,...

I've never used an external preamp with the 244, as I've never needed to. The 244's preamps always seemed to have more than enough gain for my cheapie MOR mics.

You may use an external preamp & plug it into the normal Mic/Line (1/4") inputs, using the transformer/adapter as necessary & keeping the Trim all the way down, & I think that's the best solution. All you're looking for is extra gain for your mic. There's the idea that putting 2 preamp stages in a row is undesirable, but I don't see a huge downside to that. If you require even more gain you may turn up the 244's Trim control as necessary.

Alt, you may remove the jumpers and plug the external preamp directly to the Access-Rcv patch point, bypassing the 244's internal preamp, but I think the hazard you run into there might be by also bypassing the OL LEDs on the input stage, and therefore having no indictation but your ears to determine when you're driving the downstream circuits with enough or too much gain. I've seen more than a handful of Portastudios with burned out channels due to plugging external preamps into them. It's a hazard to watch for & consider.

That's from recollection & I've not checked the 244 schematics. Maybe check later when I find the book.

 

[famous beagle]

The main reasons I can see for wanting to use external preamps are:

1) The sound: Different preamps sound different. Although it may be subtle, it's certainly more pronounced if you're talking about a tube pre.

2) Using condensers: An external pre will usually always supply phantom power, so there's no need to buy an external phantom power supply if don't need to. (I know he was talking about using ribbons, so this doesn't necessarily apply to his situation.)

3) Convenience: If you already have an external pre but don't yet have any XLR-to-1/4" input transformers, then the external pre will do that for you. This is especially true if you, like me, have the outputs of your external pres and inputs to the 4-track wired into a patchbay.

 

[4tracker]

I've never used an external preamp with the 244, as I've never needed to. The 244's preamps always seemed to have more than enough gain for my cheapie MOR mics.

You may use an external preamp & plug it into the normal Mic/Line (1/4") inputs, using the transformer/adapter as necessary & keeping the Trim all the way down, & I think that's the best solution. All you're looking for is extra gain for your mic. There's the idea that putting 2 preamp stages in a row is undesirable, but I don't see a huge downside to that. If you require even more gain you may turn up the 244's Trim control as necessary.

Alt, you may remove the jumpers and plug the external preamp directly to the Access-Rcv patch point, bypassing the 244's internal preamp, but I think the hazard you run into there might be by also bypassing the OL LEDs on the input stage, and therefore having no indictation but your ears to determine when you're driving the downstream circuits with enough or too much gain. I've seen more than a handful of Portastudios with burned out channels due to plugging external preamps into them. It's a hazard to watch for & consider.

That's from recollection & I've not checked the 244 schematics. Maybe check later when I find the book.

Thanks, Dave. That's exactly what I was looking for with a better explanation of when to bypass the jumpers. I really do NOT want to do that, because I just had my 244 restored to spec, and I don't want to fry anything. So my best bet would be a pre-amp with the trim all the way down. Since the 244 only takes the hi-z mics, I assume the output of the preamp would be a xlr to a 1/4" transformer. So I'd need 4 transformers. Is that right?

 

[famous beagle]

Thanks, Dave. That's exactly what I was looking for with a better explanation of when to bypass the jumpers. I really do NOT want to do that, because I just had my 244 restored to spec, and I don't want to fry anything. So my best bet would be a pre-amp with the trim all the way down. Since the 244 only takes the hi-z mics, I assume the output of the preamp would be a xlr to a 1/4" transformer. So I'd need 4 transformers. Is that right?

Not necessarily. It depends on the preamp. Many of them will have both XLR and 1/4" outputs. So I'd check before I bought the transformers.

 

[4tracker]

The main reasons I can see for wanting to use external preamps are:

1) The sound: Different preamps sound different. Although it may be subtle, it's certainly more pronounced if you're talking about a tube pre.

2) Using condensers: An external pre will usually always supply phantom power, so there's no need to buy an external phantom power supply if don't need to. (I know he was talking about using ribbons, so this doesn't necessarily apply to his situation.)

3) Convenience: If you already have an external pre but don't yet have any XLR-to-1/4" input transformers, then the external pre will do that for you. This is especially true if you, like me, have the outputs of your external pres and inputs to the 4-track wired into a patchbay.

For me it's that I sometimes record all 4 mics at once (2 stereo on a guitar), my lady singing vocal into the ribbon, and then maybe a room mic. So some require phantom, some don't, etc. I just thought a preamp would be easier, and then like you said if it's a tube one it might impart color.

I bought a Rolls PB223 Mic Power II Dual 48V Phantom Power Supply. This would allow me to power the two condensers for stereo guitar. This might be all I need, come to think of it. Dave, have you ever used something like this Rolls to allow condenser use on the 244?

 

[4tracker]

Not necessarily. It depends on the preamp. Many of them will have both XLR and 1/4" outputs. So I'd check before I bought the transformers.

Thanks.

I am going to test out this Rolls tonight. It is xlr out to the transformer 1/4". Maybe this will solve a lot of problems and I won't need a preamp. The preamps on the 244 sound good, so it would be nice to avoid the hassle. I realized the reason my ribbon sounded low was probably that I forgot it was hi-z input on the 244 and forgot to use the transformer. So I was plugging the lo-z ribbing into the hi-z 244....doh.