I Want It Back

[Tadpui]

I thought I'd throw this one out here before I have to disconnect my audio interface and be without mixing/recording capability for a couple of weeks. My poor interface has to go in for repair...I've been putting it off long enough (an XLR input went out on me...not catastrophic but, well, I Want It Back ). So I kind of rushed this one. I'll stop obsessing and see what suggestions you all may have.

This another older one that I've been kicking around for well over a decade. I've gone through several ideas about how to use this guitar riff, and I ended up using it on this track from the concept album that I cobbled together in the mid 2000's (same album as all of the other songs I've been posting lately). This is one where I wrote and rewrote and rewrote the lyrics again and again. I still don't like the chorus, but I think that I'm done dinking around with the lyrics by now. You know how you let a song sit too long and then that's just the way the song goes now? Yeah, that...

And the lyrics:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ji9xt052uqhlyqv/Lyrics.txt

 

[NotThatBright]

(an XLR input went out on me...not catastrophic but, well, I Want It Back ).

Ha! I get it.

Good song, I can't think of anything to fault on the mix. What part of the chorus don't you like, the lyrics or the music?

 

[mjbphotos]

In the verse the kick seems a little loud to me and hi hat a little low in relation to it and the snare. The lead guitar is obviously done in two tracks as the sound and pan are a little different, but I don't think they sit 'in' the mix, maybe lowering the volume and adding a touch of reverb to them would help.

 

[Bruthish]

nice clean and clear guitar tone on rhythms. Lead guitar stands a little too far out with too much presence. Everything seems to sound pretty good and mixes well.

 

[Tadpui]

Ha! I get it.

Good song, I can't think of anything to fault on the mix. What part of the chorus don't you like, the lyrics or the music?

Thanks man, it's the lyrics of the chorus that have bugged me this whole time. It just feels a little weak.

In the verse the kick seems a little loud to me and hi hat a little low in relation to it and the snare. The lead guitar is obviously done in two tracks as the sound and pan are a little different, but I don't think they sit 'in' the mix, maybe lowering the volume and adding a touch of reverb to them would help.

nice clean and clear guitar tone on rhythms. Lead guitar stands a little too far out with too much presence. Everything seems to sound pretty good and mixes well.

Two votes that the lead guitars aren't sitting right is a pretty good indication that you're on to something I'll fiddle with them and see if I can get them to sit in the pocket a bit better.

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Brian Miller]

Nice mix man. The guitars are super clean. What was your recording chain for them?

The lyrics are fairly generic, but we've all done it. No harm there. Not every song can be a brilliant social/political statement.

The lead guitar was *maybe* a little loud, but it reminded me of 80s Aerosmith, and the days when you could actually hear lead instruments instead of them getting buried as a trade off for over compression and the loudness war. I dig it.

 

[Tadpui]

Nice mix man. The guitars are super clean. What was your recording chain for them?

The lyrics are fairly generic, but we've all done it. No harm there. Not every song can be a brilliant social/political statement.

The lead guitar was *maybe* a little loud, but it reminded me of 80s Aerosmith, and the days when you could actually hear lead instruments instead of them getting buried as a trade off for over compression and the loudness war. I dig it.

Thanks Brian! The rhythm guitars are an LP Classic through a Marshall DSL40CST, mic'd by an Audix i5 through an FMR RNP. That amp and mic seem to get along very well together, I've been very happy with the recorded tones I've been getting from them.

The lead guitars are the same guitar through a Mesa Lonestar Special mic'd by an SM57. I used to be unhappy with how that amp recorded, but now I like it's dark squishiness as a contrast to the stiffer, brighter Marshall. I just haven't found a way to really get it to cooperate in a mix yet.

Thanks for the comments man, I appreciate it.

 

[TripleM]

I think your bass sound is getting better. It sounded pretty good on this one. Nice definition - no more notes running together.

Guitars sound excellent. I'd go with something that has just a bit more bite - like a very small boost around 3K or so. Might not work, but could be something to try. Or just use a Marshall.

I think a doubled lead vocal would be cool (as usual). Vocal sounds good. Clear but not harsh.

 

[BroKen_H]

Everything is pretty dry. Agree a little verb on those nice bight guitar sounds might be in order. Love the snare snap and ring. Love that bass tone. Also, the short burst of triple harmony at the end of the chorus. I like the tone of the lead, especially the second half. Maybe a small eq adjust or just pull them back slightly.

 

[BroKen_H]

The second half of that guitar solo really haunts me. Sounds really familiar to some late 60s early 70s tone, but I just can't place it. Clapton, Beck, Harrison, something...

 

[HugoRibeiro.Com]

Really liked everything except the kick sound. Sounds too boxy. But thats just me!
But the song is really really cool!!

cheers

 

[Tadpui]

I think your bass sound is getting better. It sounded pretty good on this one. Nice definition - no more notes running together.

Guitars sound excellent. I'd go with something that has just a bit more bite - like a very small boost around 3K or so. Might not work, but could be something to try. Or just use a Marshall.

I think a doubled lead vocal would be cool (as usual). Vocal sounds good. Clear but not harsh.

Why thanks! I've been fiddling with the vocals on each song that I've done lately. It's given me a chance to try several techniques, and none has won me over yet. This one has the lead vocal duplicated and hard-panned L & R, with a chorus on the panned tracks (inverted phase on one of them). I mixed it in until I could hear it, then backed off a bit. There's a subtle reverb on it as well. As an extended experiment on this technique, I might just try doubling the vocals, and duplicating/panning the duped vocals. Or even triple tracking and panning those. I'm all about finding something that works at this point.

Everything is pretty dry. Agree a little verb on those nice bight guitar sounds might be in order. Love the snare snap and ring. Love that bass tone. Also, the short burst of triple harmony at the end of the chorus. I like the tone of the lead, especially the second half. Maybe a small eq adjust or just pull them back slightly.

The second half of that guitar solo really haunts me. Sounds really familiar to some late 60s early 70s tone, but I just can't place it. Clapton, Beck, Harrison, something...

I agree, I've tended towards much drier vocals lately. It may be that I haven't found the right reverb yet. And I hate to audition reverbs. They all sound different, but the same. I get bored with it very quickly. So I've stuck with Lexicon's "vocal plate" and dialed it down until it wasn't obtrusive. But unobtrusive has equaled inaudible lately. I think that if I spent some time fiddling with an EQ on the reverb, I could find something that gives it some atmosphere without making it too "essy".

You know, I've heard something vaguely familiar from that Mesa amp lately as well. I was just thinking the other day while listening to a different recording that it had some quality that I recognized but couldn't quite place. I was thinking Memory Of A Free Festival Pt. 2, that solo tone. Listening to that now and the tone is all different, but there's some similar quality in there that I can't quite place.

Really liked everything except the kick sound. Sounds too boxy. But thats just me!
But the song is really really cool!!

cheers

Thanks Hugo, I'm on the hunt for a kick that sounds good in a mix. Not being a drummer, me shopping for drum samples is like a chimpanzee shopping for algebra books. For this one I went with a Ludwig vintage with a hard beater. Personally I hate clicky kick sounds, but I ovbiously need something with more beater click to it so that it works better in a mix.

 

[dobro]

A bit more body on the snare, perhaps? The flanking guitars need to be bigger somehow, especially during the verses. The first thing I'd be reaching for is the volume knob, and the second might be a Microshift - spread 'em out a bit. Bass: I'd be trying just a taste higher on the cutoff frequency for the highpass (or turn it down a decibel - I often find myself switching back and forth between rolling a bit of low end off and turning the bass up, or leaving the low end as is and turning the level down - I prefer the former). Vocals are okay, soundwise. They're okay performance-wise too, but if you ever want to take it to the next level, sing your ass off. Sing like you were putting a message down that your life depended on.

 

[TripleM]

I might just try doubling the vocals, and duplicating/panning the duped vocals. Or even triple tracking and panning those.

This is very much just a personal preference, but for doubled/tripled lead vocals, I like all the tracks down the center. What works quite well for doubled guitars, doesn't work so well for lead vocal. IMO

Then I'd find the track you like the most, and pull back the other(s) a good 10dbs or so. Just me.

 

[Greg_L]

I think overall this is a pretty good mix. The guitars generally sound good to me. I could maybe use a little more top end on the rhythms, but just a touch. No reverb, but some presence. "Air", if you will. I'm not crazy about the leads. They jump out too much. You can sit them in the mix and still have them be audible because the tone is so different. The kick is a little boxy/woofy. You can cut a little out with EQ. The rest of the levels and performances all seem good to me.

 

[Tadpui]

A bit more body on the snare, perhaps? The flanking guitars need to be bigger somehow, especially during the verses. The first thing I'd be reaching for is the volume knob, and the second might be a Microshift - spread 'em out a bit. Bass: I'd be trying just a taste higher on the cutoff frequency for the highpass (or turn it down a decibel - I often find myself switching back and forth between rolling a bit of low end off and turning the bass up, or leaving the low end as is and turning the level down - I prefer the former). Vocals are okay, soundwise. They're okay performance-wise too, but if you ever want to take it to the next level, sing your ass off. Sing like you were putting a message down that your life depended on.

The bass and kick are things that I think I'll always struggle with. They seem to go from inaudible to too loud in the tiniest movement of the faders. Thanks for the suggestions, I'm hoping that all of my experimentation lately will finally yield some rules of thumb for my setup that'll make it easier to get a balanced bass and wider vocals. I'm looking forward to getting this album behind me because it's all pretty low-energy vocals. I'll get a chance to sing my ass off with my more recent material

This is very much just a personal preference, but for doubled/tripled lead vocals, I like all the tracks down the center. What works quite well for doubled guitars, doesn't work so well for lead vocal. IMO

Then I'd find the track you like the most, and pull back the other(s) a good 10dbs or so. Just me.

I see, thanks for the suggestion. I haven't done much doubled vocal at all, so any advice is much appreciated. I'll give that a try!

I think overall this is a pretty good mix. The guitars generally sound good to me. I could maybe use a little more top end on the rhythms, but just a touch. No reverb, but some presence. "Air", if you will. I'm not crazy about the leads. They jump out too much. You can sit them in the mix and still have them be audible because the tone is so different. The kick is a little boxy/woofy. You can cut a little out with EQ. The rest of the levels and performances all seem good to me.

Thanks man, much appreciated. The "air" EQ will be easy enough on the rhythm guitars. Those leads really seem to be the biggest offender in the mix. I'll rethink how I did those. Since that Mesa is voiced so dark, I thought it was getting lost a bit.

With the kick, this was my first mix with a different sample. I had been using a Ludwig vintage somethingorother with a soft beater. This time I switched to the same thing but with a hard beater. I figured that a little beater click would help it be a little more defined since the bass guitar follows the kick pretty closely (this applies for most of the songs off this album). I still don't hear any beater in the mix, and several people have commented about it not sounding right. I really hate auditioning drum samples, I still have a pretty outsider view of the subtleties of drum variations. But I'll look through SSD4 some more and see if I can find one that's a little more agreeable for what I'm doing.

Thanks everybody, I really appreciate the help here. Unfortunately, like I mentioned before, I'll be out of commission for a couple of weeks as far as recording and monitoring. But this'll give me a chance to sleep on these recent mixes and hopefully approach them with fresh ears and really put all of these suggestions to work. Cheers, fellas!

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

The second the song kicks in I'm already very convinced by the guitar and bass combination. Very thick and clear.
The snare could use more body. The kick drum is bit boomy. It might also just be my speakers, they've got some hype around that area that I think I'm hearing.
Vocals up 1db?

Great solo tone. Reminded me of the Eagles.

 

[StuGort]

Pretty good mix. If the bass and kick weren't so punchy the vocal might sit better in the mix. I'd like the vocal a bit more our front. The lead guitar is slightly too loud....but would it would also seem better if the vocal led more.

 

[rayc]

Tadpui,

You were concerned about your chorus.
I think the chorus yearns for a tag line: a resolution to the melody & words that may possibly be achieved with an extra line.
I want me back - I know what you mean but it READS like pop psychology - as if using buzz words like being the best you, this is going to be a changing day, give myself permission etc.
I also think the lines I've emboldened could use a little rephrasing - particularly the words forgot & forget.
Rhyming anyone & anyone bothers me unnecessarily - but it bothers me.

My signal's fading, fading
Attenuating, waiting

Now I can't get close to anyone
Now I'm not part of anyone

I want it back
I want you back
I want me back
??????????????

I forgot everyone I ever knew
But I hope I never forget you

I want it back
I want you back
I want me back
???????????????
having said the above I also enjoyed the song, I think the solo, as demonstrated on the 1st page link, was fine and that the lyrics, whilst fairly pop blah weren't horrible, but rather just a little anonymous. The italicized lines suggested you were going to go down a particular path and you left it pretty soon after. the path suggested some more interest. For the most part they carry the melody well enough.