Recording right on the click

Schwarzenyaeger

Schwarzenyaeger

Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
I've noticed that playing a groove a few ms behind a beat sounds better than right on and much better than a few ms before the beat.

Even a software that uses MIDI like Guitar Pro delays it's perfectly timed notes by a few ms.

Why is this?
 
Schwarzenyaeger said:
I've noticed that playing a groove a few ms behind a beat sounds better than right on and much better than a few ms before the beat.

Even a software that uses MIDI like Guitar Pro delays it's perfectly timed notes by a few ms.

Why is this?
Click to expand...

It's not likely to be a fixed delay but, rather, an intentional inaccuracy.
Even someone trying their hardest to play something on the beat isn't going to be perfectly accurate.
If they hit any beat dead on it's dumb luck.

If you ever construct a midi drum loop in grid mode, you'll hear exactly why rigid perfection isn't really perfection for natural music.
It might be a different thing for dance genres etc, but there you go....
 
I never record to a metronome click. I set up a basic drum pattern in one of my drum VSTIs and record to that. In particular I always put hi hats on every beat. That's where the "swing" comes from because those clever little programmers put it in there...
 
'Pocket

I love messing with my hits (on guitar) ahead, behind, syncopated,
Hell assuming most everthing (everyone) else in locked in well enough, what'd you need another asshole playing on the 'beat'. Boring.
:p I like lookind around at what all's being played.. At what isn't being played. Is there already too much wanking going on? Maybe the best contruibution (at that moment?.. Is to lay the fulk back.
Play some 'chello harmony with the bass. Nobody's likely going there :D
 
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Armistice said:
.. In particular I always put hi hats on every beat. That's where the "swing" comes from because those clever little programmers put it in there...
Click to expand...

That's interesting. I already like drum sounds vs any of the straight clicks' (soul killing montony..) but that could be even better.
 
the wierd thing i've noticed is that i play a little before the click on drums, but then i also do that with all the other instruments, so they do end up aligned, but not with the click, I don't know what that means, but i can't seem to adjust my playing, then when i tried to fix the drums, it was a mess....
 
There is a fine line between playing 'in the groove' and playing tight.

If a drummer can't get it right, then that is not a good drummer IMO.

I have not seen a drummer that could not play to a click track that was worth recording. That being said, the best drummers I have recorded did not need one.

Vague as that sounds it is just the way it is in my experience.
 
Trouble is, when is arty playing sloppy playing? Everyone to the click tightly produces a different result an everyone playing off it for 'swing' - it can become a mess, very quickly. My view is the drums and bass need to be careful, because others will be playing to them.
 
I've also noticed this and it's not taste. I believe it solely depends on the song itself. Sometimes it just sounds fake and robotic and unappealing. It doesn't have that groove. It is dependent on the song though.
 
jimmys69 said:
There is a fine line between playing 'in the groove' and playing tight.

If a drummer can't get it right, then that is not a good drummer IMO.

I have not seen a drummer that could not play to a click track that was worth recording. That being said, the best drummers I have recorded did not need one.

Vague as that sounds it is just the way it is in my experience.
Click to expand...



I agree, except when you can't get the other players to play in time. In nearly every situation I have ever been in, studio recording wise, I have had to struggle with people that play in front of the beat. In order to not go completely insane I wind up speeding up which then causes the goddam bass player or guitarist to speed up and I finally just stop, tell the engineer to put a click in everybody's mix and start over. I love it when the players say the click is wavering or some other nonsense. I lay down a nice, even drum take with just enough "organics" and then the other players have to overdub their parts. I usually record to a scratch track that has been quantized and force everybody to overdub, that's how it is going to go anyway.

I hope some guitarist will pipe up about "a drummer should be a machine, it shouldn't matter if the other players are a little off". I'll give you 50ms of latency in your headphones and let me know how that works out for ya. Learn to play, ya stringed instrument hacks!
 
Any "musician" that complains about a click, or can't play to a click, is a hack fraud joke and should be beaten to death.
 
cafehonda said:
I agree, except when you can't get the other players to play in time. In nearly every situation I have ever been in, studio recording wise, I have had to struggle with people that play in front of the beat. In order to not go completely insane I wind up speeding up which then causes the goddam bass player or guitarist to speed up and I finally just stop, tell the engineer to put a click in everybody's mix and start over. I love it when the players say the click is wavering or some other nonsense. I lay down a nice, even drum take with just enough "organics" and then the other players have to overdub their parts. I usually record to a scratch track that has been quantized and force everybody to overdub, that's how it is going to go anyway.

I hope some guitarist will pipe up about "a drummer should be a machine, it shouldn't matter if the other players are a little off". I'll give you 50ms of latency in your headphones and let me know how that works out for ya. Learn to play, ya stringed instrument hacks!
Click to expand...
For sure. And
a) "people that play in front of the beat"-- Typically, that's called rushing
:D
b) When you feel/see that happening around you- depending on the situation, the choices are look to the drummer (most likely), or the bass, or others that aren't messing it up or are leading, to keep it from metastasizing. :rolleyes: (Ok- non applicable word.
d) If the person -um 'expressing temporal license' is The King and you're there to make them look good - suck it up and make it happen.
To me if someone ever said 'the click is drifting', I'd know- from experience, 'No, that's you, and what happens when your focus shifted back from 'all you' mode...
to 'while you were away..? This is where we are now.

I'm thinking of a drummer -local not big time or anything that got jaded with this kind of stuff and he'd hold it down, and let someone hang out to dry- until that 'someone' would finally notice. Then you'd get this big 'turn around and 'WTF?' look.
Mean time you got this awkward shit you got to play through. Gee, fun. :p

..clarify. Actually it was worse than that. Holding the tempo is good, fine usually. He might not notice the drift or what ever at first, but then try to drag it back to 'proper tempo' half way through a fricken song. Yikes.
 
Ain't it called "syncopation"?
And didn't a certain Mr Joplin corner the market a few years ago?

(got the black disc somewhere. Great playing by Rifkin but the worst acoustic I have ever heard! Sounds like the piano is made of brass and it is being played in a large bathroom!)

Dave.
 
Greg_L said:
Any "musician" that complains about a click, or can't play to a click, is a hack fraud joke and should be beaten to death.
Click to expand...

The scene; interior Australia-
"What did he say?"
"He wants to know if we allowed to eat these men."
"No Jaba, we're just to watch them."
 
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