Does anyone do this??

[Sain Dyfi Sound]

Hi I'm a new member on this site.

I've been thinking about the most efficient ways to set up a recording session. I currently use Logic Pro 9.
Say now a customer comes to record drums, would it be a good idea to setup a session template beforehand with the drums eq'ed and compressed on different tracks to how you want them to sound, and all the settings saved as template with all the plugins in their place already so you don't have to waste time when the customer comes to record tweaking and getting everything to sound right on the day? What is the best way to do it?

Or do you just record clean sound, and just get the gain right, and do all the eq'ing/compression for every track after the recording session? What if you get the settings right, is it not a good idea to save that setting for every other time you record so you can just go straight to business?!

 

[RAMI]

Hi I'm a new member on this site.

I've been thinking about the most efficient ways to set up a recording session. I currently use Logic Pro 9.
Say now a customer comes to record drums, would it be a good idea to setup a session template beforehand with the drums eq'ed and compressed on different tracks to how you want them to sound, and all the settings saved as template with all the plugins in their place already so you don't have to waste time when the customer comes to record tweaking and getting everything to sound right on the day? What is the best way to do it?

Or do you just record clean sound, and just get the gain right, and do all the eq'ing/compression for every track after the recording session? What if you get the settings right, is it not a good idea to save that setting for every other time you record so you can just go straight to business?!

Unless you're psychic, how in god's name do you think you'll know how they'll need to be EQ'd and compressed before recording them? That's one of the weirdest things I've read in a long time.

Um...the answer is NO, it's not a good idea. Mainly because it's impossible. Every drum set, drummer, song, and session requires different treatment.

 

[Steenamaroo]

I currently use Logic Pro 9.
Say now a customer comes to record drums, would it be a good idea to setup a session template beforehand with the drums eq'ed and compressed on different tracks to how you want them to sound

Compression thresholds depend on input levels which are the result of the combination of mic sensitivity, preamp gain, source volume and source distance, so you can't really set them up in advance.
You could set up plausible ratios/attacks/releases if you really want to save some time but I wouldn't bother.

Eq is dependent on the kit used, the room the mics chosen, and their positions.
Again, you can't really set these up in advance unless you have a house kit that's you always mic the same way.


Sometimes I place my eqs verbs and comps in their places before a session to save time, but the settings will be flat.
I mean, this is literally if I'm set up waiting and bored...you know?

Best practice is probably just to start from scratch and use your ears to make the judgements afterwards.

Setting up your tracks and routing in advance is very sensible, though.
Aux tracks, groups, headphone sends...do all that stuff.

 

[polarity]

I get the idea you're going for here. Set up a template to save yourself time, and a template can be fine. Just set your audio tracks, your normal sends, auxes, etc. No need to add compression and such, you can throw in your standard reverbs if you want like a long a short and a delay or something and just modify as you go.. The question is how much time are you going to save yourself after you go back and change it all later?

 

[Sain Dyfi Sound]

Compression thresholds depend on input levels which are the result of the combination of mic sensitivity, preamp gain, source volume and source distance, so you can't really set them up in advance.
You could set up plausible ratios/attacks/releases if you really want to save some time but I wouldn't bother.

Eq is dependent on the kit used, the room the mics chosen, and their positions.
Again, you can't really set these up in advance unless you have a house kit that's you always mic the same way.


Sometimes I place my eqs verbs and comps in their places before a session to save time, but the settings will be flat.
I mean, this is literally if I'm set up waiting and bored...you know?

Best practice is probably just to start from scratch and use your ears to make the judgements afterwards.

Thanks for replying - I just wanted people's thoughts on this, as I've recorded in a studio before, and the guy has a set sound for his drums, he's got his drums set up permanently in his studio and he never changes the sound, but I appreciate that every song needs different eq's, different compression etc. and different drum sound depending on the song. I guess it's just about doing it until you know straight away what sounds right and sticking to the formula?

 

[Sain Dyfi Sound]

I get the idea you're going for here. Set up a template to save yourself time, and a template can be fine. Just set your audio tracks, your normal sends, auxes, etc. No need to add compression and such, you can throw in your standard reverbs if you want like a long a short and a delay or something and just modify as you go.. The question is how much time are you going to save yourself after you go back and change it all later?

Good point. Maybe not at all!

 

[Bop Stop Studio]

What the other guys said, if you are setting up an unknown drum kit. I think that is obvious, but if you have a studio kit....

I keep mine miked up, levels set a tracking template ready for all instruments. I also keep the piano miked up and the room mic and all other cabling and mic sources, as ready as possible. Many clients complain when it is 1-2 hrs of set up and that will easily happen if working on a newly set up drum kit, but if it is a stationary, this saves tons of time!!

I do not do much or any acquisition EQ compressions etc... all post process. I only put some slight EQ on my ribbons mics, as they like a little hi end. Otherwise, I know many others do use EQ compression prior. Not a bad idea to have your settings in general and do a tweaking of course when set up.

Trio, I am up and tracking in 10-15 min. maybe 20-40 min for 4-6 piece band playing together.

 

[Sain Dyfi Sound]

What the other guys said, if you are setting up an unknown drum kit. I think that is obvious, but if you have a studio kit....

I keep mine miked up, levels set a tracking template ready for all instruments. I also keep the piano miked up and the room mic and all other cabling and mic sources, as ready as possible. Many clients complain when it is 1-2 hrs of set up and that will easily happen if working on a newly set up drum kit, but if it is a stationary, this saves tons of time!!

I do not do much or any acquisition EQ compressions etc... all post process. I only put some slight EQ on my ribbons mics, as they like a little hi end. Otherwise, I know many others do use EQ compression prior. Not a bad idea to have your settings in general and do a tweaking of course when set up.

Trio, I am up and tracking in 10-15 min. maybe 20-40 min for 4-6 piece band playing together.

Yes I meant my own studio kit...

 

[Steenamaroo]

Yes I meant my own studio kit...

If it's a static house kit then yeah, there's some merit in setting up effects in advance.
Assuming you use the same mics in the same positions, you could certainly have eqs setup.
You could even hone your mic choice and position until you don't need eq, possibly.

Compression's still an unknown quantity though. You don't know how hard the drummer's gonna hit stuff until he does it.

 

[RAMI]

But then why record with those effects engaged? You should still record without any EQ or compression. There's no good reason to record the effects or EQ or compression.

 

[Steenamaroo]

But then why record with those effects engaged? You should still record without any EQ or compression. There's no good reason to record the effects or EQ or compression.

It's a session template so he's talking about software plugs, right OP?
If so the effects are on the way out, not the way in.

 

[RAMI]

I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time, I'm actually trying to help.

So, I'll just say that drums change, like voodoo. Ask Greg, ask anyone who records drums. Even if you don't touch one thing or move any mics, they never sound the same for any 2 sessions. So, that's the first reason why this "template" idea is not a good idea. Even if things didn't change, there is no one size fits all. You need to EQ, compress, add reverb, etc....according to each situation. The song might not have the same feel, the drummer might not hit as hard as he did last session, the skins might have slightly de-tuned......and a million other things MIGHT happen.

But to address the OP's question, he asks about the template and then he says this: (Notice he starts this paragraph with the word "OR", which indicates to me that the first option involved recording the EQ and compression on the way in).......

Or do you just record clean sound, and just get the gain right, and do all the eq'ing/compression for every track after the recording session?

 

[polarity]

If it's a "house" kit I see no problem with setting up a basic template.. All your tracks, sends, auxes.. Hell you can even throw in flat eqs, verbs, etc but every time you will be changing the settings per song. Also depending on how they are being played you might change tons of stuff.

I have a couple templates setup just to keep my mappings from my mixer and stuff like that.. So I have an acoustic guitar template that just loads up the right mappings, 2 mics and DI with some basic panning. I have an EQ and reverb setup but both are just empty as far as settings. Probably saves me about 5 min in total if I were to just open the DAW and start a blank session. I don't really know that I could take it much farther though.

 

[Greg_L]

So, I'll just say that drums change, like voodoo. Ask Greg,

Greg concurs 100%. Doing a template premix is putting the cart before the horse, won't save any time, and is frankly quite retarded.

Having said that....if you want to set up a template with flat plug-ins, SET FLAT, in place ready to be engaged, then by all means go for it. I use templates. Insert drum tracks, then blam, 10 tracks show up ready to go with all the plug-ins I could ever want. But they're all flat. Not doing anything. They're just there because things change. I don't preconceive notion anything. My drums are always in the same spot with the same mics. They can track different from song to song, and even things like guitar and bass tones can effect how you might EQ things.

And don't record any effects or processing going in. That defeats the whole process of everything.

 

[RAMI]

If it's a "house" kit I see no problem with setting up a basic template.. All your tracks, sends, auxes.. Hell you can even throw in flat eqs, verbs, etc but every time you will be changing the settings per song. Also depending on how they are being played you might change tons of stuff.

I have a couple templates setup just to keep my mappings from my mixer and stuff like that.. So I have an acoustic guitar template that just loads up the right mappings, 2 mics and DI with some basic panning. I have an EQ and reverb setup but both are just empty as far as settings. Probably saves me about 5 min in total if I were to just open the DAW and start a blank session. I don't really know that I could take it much farther though.

You're not wrong, as long as you bypass stuff until you decide how or if you're going to use it.

But, speaking for my own experience, if I always used templates, it would have held me back as far as improving my mixing skills because I would have never asked myself how THIS EQ or compressor might sound as opposed to THIS EQ or compressor. If I was still using the same effects, plug-ins and techniques I was using 5 years ago, my recordings would still sound the same as they did 5 years ago. But I know for a fact that my mixes sound a million times better now than they did 5, 3, or even last year. One of the reasons for that is because I force myself to start from scratch every time so that I'm not locked into some lazy way of doing things and stagnating. That's just a personal observation. I have never thought that templates are a good idea because they hold you back. Just personal opinion.

 

[Greg_L]

Suppose one of your mics gets kicked or a drummer whacks a tom mic or an overhead stand falls over. Guess what? Your template is fucked. You'll never get that mic back in the same spot, and micro inches matter. All it takes is one tiny movement to screw up everything.

You ever record guitars in a real studio? You know what happens? They mic your cab, and everyone on the block gets the fuck away from it until the entire thing is over. Why? Because it's damn near impossible to repeat where the mic exactly was. This destroys an EQ template.

 

[Steenamaroo]

He's talking about a session template so nothing's likely to be committed to the recording, but.

So, I'll just say that drums change, like voodoo. Ask Greg, ask anyone who records drums. Even if you don't touch one thing or move any mics, they never sound the same for any 2 sessions. So, that's the first reason why this "template" idea is not a good idea. Even if things didn't change, there is no one size fits all. You need to EQ, compress, add reverb, etc....according to each situation. The song might not have the same feel, the drummer might not hit as hard as he did last session, the skins might have slightly de-tuned......and a million other things MIGHT happen.
..

Fair play...It's safer and more sensible to take each situation as it comes.

 

[RAMI]

He's talking about a session template so nothing's likely to be committed to the recording, but.

Possibly, but like I said, the way he worded the "OR...." question indicates otherwise to me. Anyway, I think the question has been answered.