Will Yamaha mg16 work as mixer for Fostex b16?

[adampaulson1217]

Hey all, I recently acquired a Fostex b16 and now need a mixer to run it, but I am very short on funds. I have a Yamaha mg16 that's currently in a different state, but I can have it shipped to me if it will do the trick. I have read you can use the inserts as direct outs, but is it possible to run out from the fostex back into the yamaha for playback and mixing? I'm thinking I could use the first 8 channels to record through, then the other 8 to mix on... Would I run the tape outs into the line inputs of the yamaha? So many questions....

 

[Bobbsy]

Alas, if you have the standard model of MG16 it doesn't have inserts or direct outs.

Your scheme could have worked otherwise though!

A suggestion:

A lot of older mixers (the Yamaha MX-200-16 and Soundcraft Spirit Live 3 are two I know of off the top of my head but there are tons of others) have separate inputs for mic and line with a selector switch rather than a continuous gain control. They also have Inserts. Since they're old, they often go for a song on eBay (you might get enough for your MG to cover it) but many of the older units were built like the proverbial brick shithouse so if you can find one in good condition you'd likely be okay. This would let you use all 16 channels just by switching mic/line as required. (Well, I guess 14 channels so you can have two to mix into.)

Obviously a mixer with direct out and enough returns would be even better but you mentioned that budget is a problem!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

The last 4 mixer channels are stereo on the MG16, so you might consider using the last 8 tracks on the recorder for tracks that could work with that in pairs such as a stereo drum track or stereo keys patches.

You would have enough line inputs for playback but being only a 4 buss mixer, you might want to consider making use of a patch-bay so you use the 4 buss outs into the patch-bay and then follow through with 8 or 16 lines to the decks inputs and make use of jumper patch cords on the patch-bay to assign the tracks. I used to do that when I was running a 4 buss board to my 16 track and it worked out well for me.

If you're on a tight budget, a second hand patch bay is way cheaper then buying another mixer which may or may not have service issues.

My 2 cents...

Cheers!

 

[adampaulson1217]

Alas, if you have the standard model of MG16 it doesn't have inserts or direct outs.

Your scheme could have worked otherwise though!

A suggestion:

A lot of older mixers (the Yamaha MX-200-16 and Soundcraft Spirit Live 3 are two I know of off the top of my head but there are tons of others) have separate inputs for mic and line with a selector switch rather than a continuous gain control. They also have Inserts. Since they're old, they often go for a song on eBay (you might get enough for your MG to cover it) but many of the older units were built like the proverbial brick shithouse so if you can find one in good condition you'd likely be okay. This would let you use all 16 channels just by switching mic/line as required. (Well, I guess 14 channels so you can have two to mix into.)

Obviously a mixer with direct out and enough returns would be even better but you mentioned that budget is a problem!

Thanks for the reply. I guess I should have been more specific that I do have the mg16 with inserts. Also, I'm going to eventually be transferring the tracks to my computer through a 16 channel presous firestudio for additional mixing. So I think that means my original plan of attack will actually work?

 

[adampaulson1217]

The last 4 mixer channels are stereo on the MG16, so you might consider using the last 8 tracks on the recorder for tracks that could work with that in pairs such as a stereo drum track or stereo keys patches.

You would have enough line inputs for playback but being only a 4 buss mixer, you might want to consider making use of a patch-bay so you use the 4 buss outs into the patch-bay and then follow through with 8 or 16 lines to the decks inputs and make use of jumper patch cords on the patch-bay to assign the tracks. I used to do that when I was running a 4 buss board to my 16 track and it worked out well for me.

If you're on a tight budget, a second hand patch bay is way cheaper then buying another mixer which may or may not have service issues.

My 2 cents...

Cheers!

I think I kind of get what you're saying, but being very new to analog recording I'm slightly lost. Are you saying I should run the buss outs to a patch bay so I can record more tracks at once? How would I adjust levels for the individual tracks going into the tape deck this way? Also, with the stereo tracks, how do you pan out the individual tracks going into it?

 

[The Ghost of FM]

I think I kind of get what you're saying, but being very new to analog recording I'm slightly lost. Are you saying I should run the buss outs to a patch bay so I can record more tracks at once? How would I adjust levels for the individual tracks going into the tape deck this way? Also, with the stereo tracks, how do you pan out the individual tracks going into it?

The hook up I suggested makes use of the buss system on the mixer, so up to 4 tracks could be recorded at once. If you record by yourself or with one or two other people, 4 buss is fine for that. If you're trying to record a full band, live off the floor, a different mixer would be mandatory as your board doesn't have direct outs. It only has insert points which are in and out points in the middle of the signal chain and not really useful or easy to deal with from a hook up perspective to a tape machine. These are intending for injecting a compressor or other signal processor after the mic pre-amp and before the eq section of the channel strip. So feeding a tape recorder from that point in the signal chain removes most of the tools from the mixer.

The stereo tracks would not be pan-able on playback, so you'd have to make use of the mono channel strips while tracking to make the panning choices that will be "locked in place" on playback.

Cheers!

 

[Bobbsy]

Okay, to jump back in--if you have one of the newer model MG16-xx mixers with inserts then, yeah, your original scheme could work...sort of.

However, I think you need to have a think about what exactly you need to do. Will you frequently be recording 8 tracks at a time? If it's less, having 8 pre amps hooked up at once can be a bit of a waste. On the other hand, if you're trying to record whole bands live, 8 tracks probably aren't enough.

You'll note that I called your mixer "pre amps" above. That's because using inserts means only the pre amps are generally in circuit. The insert is pulled off BEFORE the fader (and usually before the EQ etc. though that varies with the mixer). This limits the usefulness of having a mixer at all.

Hmmm...a thought just occurred. If you take Ghost of FM's suggestion of using the buses and throw in the use of a couple of post fade aux outs, you could have six channels of recording with full fader control. Might be worth looking into.

Anyhow, I think this is the time to sit back and have a good think about what you actually need.

 

[adampaulson1217]

Thanks for all the replies, this is all starting to make much more sense! I think the bus out idea will work fine because, upon further consideration, I will never really be using more than four mics at once. Also, I have a solo 610 pre as well which would give me the ability to record an additional mic, if necessary.

 

[adampaulson1217]

Well, just double checked with my friend who's shipping it out and turns out it's only the mg16/4 so it only has two bus outs. But from what you're saying, Bobbsy, is I could run two more channels as aux outs?