Blow-Up Doll - A Greg_L original stupid love song

[Greg_L]

Amazing stuff as usual, Greg. Keep 'em coming. It is inspiring to say the least.

I remember reading a while back that what really matters is the source, the sound that is recorded, and I didn't really comprehend that before listening to your tunes. So thanks for that.

Cool man, thank you very much. I am unwavering in my belief that playing and the source sounds are absolutely the most important aspects of making a good sounding mix. You gotta sound good to begin with. A good mix of shitty sounds is still shitty.

 

[Mr Clean]

Have you posted pictures of your room Greg? I'd like to see your set up.

 

[Tadpui]

Much obliged, man. Thanks for taking an interest! I'll dig through my projects and come up with some snippets and post them in the tone thread so I can let your mix thread continue on-topic It'll be a day or two though...real life has other plans for my evenings this week.

 

[Greg_L]

Have you posted pictures of your room Greg? I'd like to see your set up.

I can't really take one good pic of everything. Here's a shot from my couch, as the stuff is sitting right now...it's a mess...

Much obliged, man. Thanks for taking an interest! I'll dig through my projects and come up with some snippets and post them in the tone thread so I can let your mix thread continue on-topic It'll be a day or two though...real life has other plans for my evenings this week.

Sure thing. If you post it and I miss it, remind me in a PM.

 

[RAMI]

all of these tracks are two mics per speaker, the 57 close to center, and the i5 on the edge

Oh man, here we go. Now EVERYONE is going to start double micing their speakers and wondering why they still can't get a good recorded guitar sound.

I put a bunch - like 6 or 7 or more - of good limiter plugs on the master bus.

Oh man, here we go. Now EVERYONE is going to start using a million instances of a limiter and wondering why they can't get a good final product.


Actually, those are both very interesting. I'm definitely going to try both of those.....and then wonder why I still can't get a good final product.

 

[Greg_L]

Oh man, here we go. Now EVERYONE is going to start double micing their speakers and wondering why they still can't get a good recorded guitar sound.
Oh man, here we go. Now EVERYONE is going to start using a million instances of a limiter and wondering why they can't get a good final product.


Actually, those are both very interesting. I'm definitely going to try both of those.....and then wonder why I still can't get a good final product.

Lol. Your stuff is awesome, and I've told you before.....I'll tell everyone....when I first started home recording in digital, Rami's stuff was what made me think this was something worth getting into. We're both guitar/bass/drum rock and roll without much flash, and we both play and record all of our own stuff with real gear. When I heard Rami's mixes, I knew it could be done successfully at home and I wanted to do it.

 

[RAMI]

Lol. Your stuff is awesome, and I've told you before.....I'll tell everyone....when I first started home recording in digital, Rami's stuff was what made me think this was something worth getting into. We're both guitar/bass/drum rock and roll without much flash, and we both play and record all of our own stuff with real gear. When I heard Rami's mixes, I knew it could be done successfully at home and I wanted to do it.

Thanx dude. I really appreciate that. I honestly think you've surpassed me by miles. I mean that honestly. But this isn't a competition and neither of us is going to get a record deal any time soon, so I just enjoy hearing someone put out stuff that's as good quality as the stuff that costs others hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce, so you have nothing but my total respect.

 

[Mr Clean]

I can't really take one good pic of everything. Here's a shot from my couch, as the stuff is sitting right now...it's a mess...

Thanks for that. Love those Marshalls!

so you have nothing but my total respect.

Snap. Always a pleasure to hear Greg's sounds.

 

[Greg_L]

Thanx dude. I really appreciate that. I honestly think you've surpassed me by miles. I mean that honestly. But this isn't a competition and neither of us is going to get a record deal any time soon, so I just enjoy hearing someone put out stuff that's as good quality as the stuff that costs others hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce, so you have nothing but my total respect.

Well thank you, and I assure you that the feeling is mutual. I hear stuff all the time in your tracks that blow me away. Like your overheads....I don't get anywhere near the clarity and image of my kit that you do in your overhead tracks. It's a good thing I like close mics on my kit because I'd be absolutely fucked without them.

I remember mixing your Amos Moses tracks and being blown away by pretty much all of it. That thing mixed itself.

But before this gets too gay, fuck you Rami!

 

[Greg_L]

Thanks for that. Love those Marshalls!



Snap. Always a pleasure to hear Greg's sounds.

Haha, thanks. I love em too!


P.S. - I got another one on the way

 

[RAMI]

Well thank you, and I assure you that the feeling is mutual. I hear stuff all the time in your tracks that blow me away. Like your overheads....I don't get anywhere near the clarity and image of my kit that you do in your overhead tracks. It's a good thing I like close mics on my kit because I'd be absolutely fucked without them.

I remember mixing your Amos Moses tracks and being blown away by pretty much all of it. That thing mixed itself.

But before this gets too gay, fuck you Rami!

Right on.



Asshole.

 

[Greg_L]

Just for fun....Blam!

 

[miroslav]

Just heard this.....and not sure if anyone already mentioned it, but you really got the Joey Ramone vocal style down on this song.

 

[Greg_L]

Just heard this.....and not sure if anyone already mentioned it, but you really got the Joey Ramone vocal style down on this song.

Ha, well that really wasn't my intention at all, but I guess almost three decades of listening to him has maybe rubbed off a little.

 

[polarity]

If only I knew what brand all those speakers were so i could get that same awesome sound!! hahah

That's some nice looking gear man.

 

[Greg_L]

If only I knew what brand all those speakers were so i could get that same awesome sound!! hahah

That's some nice looking gear man.

Thank you. All of the speakers are Celestions. And I'll add to my other ramblings.....speakers make a gigantic difference in your final guitar tone.

The top left cab is a 1960B with the stock UK G12T-75s in it. That cab actually stays in the garage now. It's my lug around to band practice cab.
The bottom left cab is another 1960B with G12T-75s and Vintage 30s in an X-pattern. Huge meaty modern sound with lots of low end.
The bottom right cab is a 1960A with Greenbacks and original G12-65s in an X-pattern. This is the cab that kills all others and is my main recording and live cab. It's got a very vintage crunch sound to it and I just love it.

 

[heatmiser]

Ok, since we're in tutorial mode here (you don't mind, do you ?), can you tell me about the stacking of multiple limiters a bit more?

I don't use a PC/DAW set-up as you and most others do, so I don't really know the FX capabilities you have, but do you stack the limiters all in sequence and master at one pass, or is it a matter of running the stereo bus through one limiter at a time, adjusting to taste and making additional passes? I'm guessing the former, as the latter sounds really time consuming.

I ask as I'm not too happy with my faux mastering results. I come in at a reasonable level (typically -14db to -10db peaks) and then I run it through a comp and a limiter all at once getting it as close to 0db as possible without clipping. The tonal balance can shift quite noticeably at this last phase. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, but always at least somewhat different. I would like to be able to raise the overall level of the master without altering the tone of the final mix so much (unless I consciously choose to do so). I guess that's what everyone wants? Anyway, I'm just wondering if you're on to something there.

I would like to learn how to "tickle" my mixes, rather than beat them to death.

 

[Greg_L]

Ok, since we're in tutorial mode here (you don't mind, do you ?), can you tell me about the stacking of multiple limiters a bit more?

I don't use a PC/DAW set-up as you and most others do, so I don't really know the FX capabilities you have, but do you stack the limiters all in sequence and master at one pass, or is it a matter of running the stereo bus through one limiter at a time, adjusting to taste and making additional passes? I'm guessing the former, as the latter sounds really time consuming.

I ask as I'm not too happy with my faux mastering results. I come in at a reasonable level (typically -14db to -10db peaks) and then I run it through a comp and a limiter all at once getting it as close to 0db as possible without clipping. The tonal balance can shift quite noticeably at this last phase. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, but always at least somewhat different. I would like to be able to raise the overall level of the master without altering the tone of the final mix so much (unless I consciously choose to do so). I guess that's what everyone wants? Anyway, I'm just wondering if you're on to something there.

I would like to learn how to "tickle" my mixes, rather than beat them to death.

I don't think it's possible, or more accurately........ I'm not aware of a way to get any kind of even modest "loudness" with consumer gear without altering the overall tonal balance somewhat. As you limit for loudness, things change. But I do think that if the raw submix is happy, it can handle some squashing without getting too ugly.

So I line up a bunch of limiters with like a 1ms release on my master bus......all turned off. I break a rule here and do this with my eyes, in addition to my ears. I turn the first one on and drop the threshold so I'm just starting to see some attenuation on the meter and raise the make up gain to get the volume back. This is a tiny little baby step and it's barely audible. Okay no problem. That's the first limiter. Then I flip the second one on and repeat the process. The mix is already louder, so it doesn't take as much finagling to create some slight attenuation and compression, and again, bring the make up gain back up. It's getting louder, but it's not being hammered to death. Flip the third limiter on, and do it all again. Listen between limiters. If things start getting bad, we got a problem somewhere. Back to the mix. Eventually I'm at like the 5th or 6th limiter, I'm barely having to drop the threshold to get any compression and it's loud and clear without any significant bad effects from all the mashing and raising. I stop there and call it good. The last plug in the chain is a spectrum analyzer that lets me see what's going on, and I usually have a nice flat-ish curve with no weird dips or spikes anywhere. When this visual aid jives with what I'm hearing, I'm happy. and the spectrum analyzer gives me an average RMS number. I'm usually humming along around -11 to -14 with the much louder parts spiking around -9 on occasion. I don't know if these are accurate numbers, but that's what I'm used to and how I get my stuff all around the same level. It's not commercially loud, but it's loud enough and still sounds acceptable to me. I don't want to be commercially loud. And that's it.

I've heard of people doing this with a little corrective EQ between each limiter step. I don't roll like that. I try to EQ as little as possible and usually don't EQ my final "master" mix at all. Maybe it could help me? I don't know. I'm not willing to try it right now.

 

[RAMI]

I don't think it's possible, or more accurately........ I'm not aware of a way to get any kind of even modest "loudness" with consumer gear without altering the overall tonal balance somewhat. As you limit for loudness, things change. But I do think that if the raw submix is happy, it can handle some squashing without getting too ugly.

So I line up a bunch of limiters on my master bus......all turned off. I break a rule here and do this with my eyes, in addition to my ears. I turn the first one on and drop the threshold so I'm just starting to see some attenuation on the meter and raise the make up gain to get the volume back. This is a tiny little baby step and it's barely audible. Okay no problem. That's the first limiter. Then I flip the second one on and repeat the process. The mix is already louder, so it doesn't take as much finagling to create some slight attenuation and compression, and again, bring the make up gain back up. It's getting louder, but it's not being hammered to death. Flip the third limiter on, and do it all again. Listen between limiters. If things start getting bad, we got a problem somewhere. Back to the mix. Eventually I'm at like the 5th or 6th limiter, I'm barely having to drop the threshold to get any compression and it's loud and clear without any significant bad effects from all the mashing and raising. I stop there and call it good. The last plug in the chain is a spectrum analyzer that lets me see what's going on, and I usually have a nice flat-ish curve with no weird dips or spikes anywhere. When this visual aid jives with what I'm hearing, I'm happy. and the spectrum analyzer gives me an average RMS number. I'm usually humming along around -11 to -14 with the much louder parts spiking around -9 on occasion. I don't know if these are accurate numbers, but that's what I'm used to and how I get my stuff all around the same level. It's not commercially loud, but it's loud enough and still sounds acceptable to me. I don't want to be commercially loud. And that's it.

I've heard of people doing this with a little corrective EQ between each limiter step. I don't roll like that. I try to EQ as little as possible and usually don't EQ my final "master" mix at all. Maybe it could help me? I don't know. I'm not willing to try it right now.

That makes so much sense, it's almost genius...yet almost obvious at the same time. I'm definitely going to try that and compare it with a one limiter mix getting me up to the same RMS level. I always shoot for -12.4 (don't ask me how I got to that number, it just happened) and my peaks are at -.2. I think your levels are accurate, because I noticed your last tune (this one) is quite a bit louder than any of my tunes, so I wouldn't be surprised if you're somewhere around -11.

Funny thing is, I actually like a noticeably "smashtered" sound. Like you both said, sometimes it changes the sound for the better. I don't like stupidly crushed, but I often like the sound of my songs after mastering. Certain things, like a snare, often get more body to them. Slightly, but just enough to fatten a few things up a bit. So, I wouldn't be surprised if I find the multiple limiter thing more transparent, but not necesarrilly liking it better.

 

[heatmiser]

I don't think it's possible, or more accurately........ I'm not aware of a way to get any kind of even modest "loudness" with consumer gear without altering the overall tonal balance somewhat. As you limit for loudness, things change. But I do think that if the raw submix is happy, it can handle some squashing without getting too ugly.

So I line up a bunch of limiters on my master bus......all turned off. I break a rule here and do this with my eyes, in addition to my ears. I turn the first one on and drop the threshold so I'm just starting to see some attenuation on the meter and raise the make up gain to get the volume back. This is a tiny little baby step and it's barely audible. Okay no problem. That's the first limiter. Then I flip the second one on and repeat the process. The mix is already louder, so it doesn't take as much finagling to create some slight attenuation and compression, and again, bring the make up gain back up. It's getting louder, but it's not being hammered to death. Flip the third limiter on, and do it all again. Listen between limiters. If things start getting bad, we got a problem somewhere. Back to the mix. Eventually I'm at like the 5th or 6th limiter, I'm barely having to drop the threshold to get any compression and it's loud and clear without any significant bad effects from all the mashing and raising. I stop there and call it good. The last plug in the chain is a spectrum analyzer that lets me see what's going on, and I usually have a nice flat-ish curve with no weird dips or spikes anywhere. When this visual aid jives with what I'm hearing, I'm happy. and the spectrum analyzer gives me an average RMS number. I'm usually humming along around -11 to -14 with the much louder parts spiking around -9 on occasion. I don't know if these are accurate numbers, but that's what I'm used to and how I get my stuff all around the same level. It's not commercially loud, but it's loud enough and still sounds acceptable to me. I don't want to be commercially loud. And that's it.

I've heard of people doing this with a little corrective EQ between each limiter step. I don't roll like that. I try to EQ as little as possible and usually don't EQ my final "master" mix at all. Maybe it could help me? I don't know. I'm not willing to try it right now.

Ok, cool. Thanks very much for going through that. I can't run that many FX at once, but I could fiddle around with doing something similar on multiple passes. Maybe not 6 or 7, but several anyway. I don't have a particular loudness goal, but you always kind of want to be in the ballpark at least.

I used to use EQ on the final master to offset the side effects of the compression and/or limiting, but I haven't felt the need lately. If I'm throwing things off so much during mastering that I have use EQ to get it back to the way it was, I feel like I'm going down the wrong path and typically go back and start again.

This is a part of the process that I know I (and I suspect other home recorders) often take for granted and kind of rush through. I'd like to pay more attention, but I always feeling like I just want to get it done by that phase. I appreciate you taking the time to go over some of your processes. If nothing else, it will get me thinking about it more next time.