Can Clicks kill the life in a recording ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter grimtraveller
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Being an actual live and recording drummer that regularly uses click tracks and finds it very easy to do so, I'm always a little suspicious and leery of any musician that shuns tempo guides. Any competent musician can play along to a click or without. A click track doesn't befuddle and/or infuriate a competent musician. It's not a big deal, for any style of music. Rock bands to classical, use a "click" WTF do you think a conductor is doing when he waves his little stick around? He's mixing the orchestra live as it happens....and providing the tempo. Any competent engineer or home recordist using a decent DAW or modern digital metronome can program a click track to do whatever you want it to do. Only hacks let a click track hurt the "feel" of their music. And that's because they probably suck. It's just a guide, and it's immeasurably useful for multitrack recording when you're laying down tracks piece by piece. Even live, playing as a band, you can wander around the click track. You don't have to let it lock you in like a robot. Speed up, slow down, charge through a chorus, and fall back in line for a verse or whatever. And furthermore, understanding the click makes you a better player when you're not using one. I'm not a great flashy drummer, but one thing I can do like a fucking king is hold my meter and drive the ship. I can only assume I picked up that trait by doing a lot of playing with metronomes/click tracks.
 
I get the feeling that the guys who don't like clicks....may have only tired it a couple of times, and of course, it probably seemed a little awkward to be playing drums and listening to this CLICK CLICK CLICK....I mean, I can see how initially it might seem distracting.
If that's the case, they should just stick with it for a bit, and very quickly the click melts away into the background, and you realize that you can still play comfortably and not rigidly TO the click , but rather WITH the click.

When I have it too loud in the cans....yeah, sometimes it just becomes annoying to listen to, but it doesn't screw up my time keeping. I just turn it down low and even pan it hard to one side.
There's also all different types of click sounds...you have to find the one you like....then there's the with or without accent.
Sometimes that accents can throw you because you're looking to change up your accent....so going with no accent makes the click more "transparent , IMO
.
I've been using pretty much the same click sound for years, and so it's familiar to me and comfortable to listen to. It's just a wood block sound....not much different sounding that the classic wind-up metronomes, which I got use to at an early age with piano lessons…..lots of exercises with the metronome!!! :D
 
When this thread started, click tracks were something that I had never considered using or really even thought about. For that matter I wasn't really sure what a click track was until people started talking about a metronome and I realized that over the years I have used a metronome many time while learning a song or practicing conducting. I will now use a click track during my rehearsals and recording although I think it will take a little getting used to.
 
"Click track" is just a generic term for an audible tempo guide. It doesn't have to be the standard beep beep, or tick tock. It could be dogs barking, or a cowbell, or handclaps, cars honking, farts, or anything. Make it whatever you want.
 
"fart track" - now that would be unique! better be a slow tempo, though.
 
I made my own fart track but sadly, I used my own mic.
:(
 
I always use a click track unless I'm doing a quick 'memory' demo. I don't have a problem playing to a click. The Dick Dock Dock Dock can be a bit grating. I usually change it to a hihat or snare rim click.

If you turn it off when recording a bass track or something you can edge away from the more robotic sound by having a looser feel. Humans aren't that accurate to be perfectly in time anyway so you'll never be spot on.

:thumbs up:
 
When I was using a looper live, in a 2 guys/acoustic guitar scenario, I'd have a kick drum track pre-recorded as a base. ie. a click. I sort of had to with what I was doing, laying 4 - 6 addtional layers on it. Despite this thing going thump thump thump thump thump thump thump thump very loudly in the monitor, I'd still have problems sometimes getting the other guy to slow down and play to it. I had a good "slow the fuck down" stare developed... :D

He also sometimes struggled with a click in the studio, and this was using a fully programmed drum pattern, not a metronome.... some people just aren't that good at it. He's learning drums... should help him.

In the end there was one song on the album that I knew wouldn't work so well to a click so I just let him go and then fitted everything else around it. It speeds up and slows down a bit and that works well for the song.

Now, as homework, I want you all to click the link in my sig, buy my album, and tell me WHICH track it was... :laughings:
 
Armistice said:
Now, as homework, I want you all to click the link in my sig, buy my album, and tell me WHICH track it was... :laughings:
Click to expand...
I checked out your CDBaby page and it seems you can only purchase the album by download. No CD or LP??
 
I practice to a click a lot when I'm woodshedding stuff. Whenever I do recordings where its just me and no other scratch instruments, I'll use a click. In a band situation, if I'm laying down the drums with other instruments, even if those other instruments get replaced, I tend not to play with a click.

So really....both!

I remember one time seeing a tempo graph somebody made of Kashmir, and throughout the song it slowly went up, and down, and up, and down, but the median stayed pretty consistent.
 
Illsidgus said:
I checked out your CDBaby page and it seems you can only purchase the album by download. No CD or LP??
Click to expand...

I have CDs but I'm in Australia... I've sent a few OS... Jimmy and Chili (and I'm hoping by now) Vomit Hat Steve all have one... more than happy to send you one, but it costs me about $10US in postage and materials to get it there and its untrackable and reliant upon standard postage - takes about 3 weeks... I was going to do the Kunaki thing as others have done but it all got too hard. PM me if you want me to wing one your way... ;)
 
So we can now close this thread as 99% of the respondents use and recommend click tracks and none feel it causes any issues with "feel" or whatever you want to call it. Case closed.
 
ido1957 said:
So we can now close this thread as 99% of the respondents use and recommend click tracks and none feel it causes any issues with "feel" or whatever you want to call it. Case closed.
Click to expand...
It's a good thing you're not on Oscar's defence team........:D
How about this
For those that don't use clicks, are there circumstances in which you feel they would be good for you ?
And for those that use them regularly, can you see any occasions where not using one would be a good thing ?
Click to expand...
side of the tracks ?
 
RAMI said:
What's that link supposed to do, other than sell me a bunch of plug-ins totally un-related to this conversation?
Click to expand...

I think those are automated links the site puts on buzzwords. :(
 
Chili said:
I think those are automated links the site puts on buzzwords. :(
Click to expand...

RAMI said:
Ah, I see. makes sense. I thought Grim put that link in.
Click to expand...
It's really annoying because it crops up in virtually every thread and in just about everyone's posts at some point. I think it's daft because after a while, I ignore any link, not knowing if it's intended or the automated buzz word thing and while one could say, well, just click it and see, that gets to be a pain in the patootie after the 1700th time, only to discover it's an amp or a pick or drumstick or reverb plug in, none of which I want.
I did point it out a couple of times to Chater~La a couple of years back and gave loads of examples but it's persisted so I gave up. Sometimes, you can't fight city hall, even in cyberspace !
It's not even like you have to watch what you say because you just never know which buzz word is buzzing that day. It's like trying to record with Syd Barrett as his mind was going......
 
No, it doesn't kill the life of it if you know what you are doing and plan it out. It's a useful tool to have. The way I do these things is like this: I record the song live and see where the push pull is. Maybe the best live take is when the last chorus is a little faster than the rest of the song. I will compensate for that by making the BPM go up in the DAW on the last chorus.

A band recording together doesn't have to have a click track if they are really tight and practice a lot. And no one will really notice. But most people aren't as tight as they might think they are. Especially after 8 hours of mistakes and having to record it again. That's when your brain starts playing the song slower, and slower. Or faster and faster to rush it out. And then you've lost the timing in which the song sounded the best. The metronome allows it so it always has that timing no matter how tired anyone is. And the drummer can't argue with you and say "That sounds too fast I don't think that is right." You can point him to this machine that clicks in the same time over and over, forever, so it's not wrong and it's not going to be wrong.

Now, if you plan on just going in and recording a live band, one or two takes and you're really tight, you make it happen without the metronome. But it will actually take you longer, because you'll need to practice with your band for way more hours to get really tight with the same timing than if you just had this click that no one can argue with that tells you the timing.

The prog songs you hear might not sound exactly on time, but they are exactly on time. They are setting the metronome to the time signature they are playing in. In your DAW you can set it to 5/8 for example and the click track will click in 5/8 and keep you in time even if you aren't in 4/4.

Now if you're like me and you're not a math person, you might have to sit there and think it out first but you'll figure it out. I play a lot of riffs that are not in 4/4. But I don't write them and play them being aware of that. But when it's time to record I'm aware of it, so I have to figure out what it is.
 
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