Guitar making tools: Which router?

[EricIndecisive]

I made mine out of 3/4" too, it works well. A forstner bit wanders like crazy, so it would be a royal pain doing it with a hand drill. Possible yes, but not worth it if you're going the plunge router route.

And muttley, I do have a craftsman 12" that was my dads.. but it is quite bad. You should see how far the drill bit moves when you try and drill a hole. It's also a bench, which I am not a fan of.. I would like a floor model. I was looking at newer ones, but I think I am going to just keep an eye on craigslist for an old one.

 

[JCH]

My feelings on the fixed base vs plunge router is that you need both. Plunge routers are for sure the best tool for doing a deep mortise where you need to make multiple cuts, but will never be as stable as a fixed base. On plunge routers the motor typically slides on rails that are attached to the base. When you lock the motor in place, it only clamps on to one rail. Even the best plunge routers have some movement. This can cause it to be "grabby", and more prone to tear-outs. A good fixed base router is much more stable. I also find it awkward using a plunge base where it's not necessary. The handles are far out to the sides, and they're larger and heavier.

I don't even know how many different routers I own. I would have to go count them. Some of them I've had over 30 years. I have four that are just for trimming plastic laminate. I've always liked Porter Cable. That's what my Dad, and Grandfather both used. I've put a lot of miles on Model 100's. They'll remain my favorite fixed base router. Powerful, well balanced, and easy to control. They have made the same model forever. I have two nice ones, and remnants of a few others I've also had very good luck with what's now known as the Dewalt DW610. It's another that's been around in the same form for nearly forever. They're a real workhorse, solid as a rock. They are the standard of the industry for production door machines. Manufactured to run all day long. Day after day. I've got a couple of these, and a few broken ones.

For my recommendation I have to agree with Brother Chili The Ryobi plunge router on this page>Search Results for*ryobi router*at The Home Depot is a pretty good all around tool, and a decent value. I've got one, and it seems to be holding up well. The electronic speed control, and soft start are excellent features. This one will handle everything that you would need to do, but for very precise operations such as cutting a pickguard from a template, or a binding channel, I prefer a fixed base.

Other notes;
I'll always remove most of the material with a forstner bit before routing. Using a hand drill is fine as long as you're careful.
3/4" is IMO way too thick for templates. I like 3/8's. The thick template will limit the depth you can go with the router.
DON'T buy router bits from stewmac. They're way overpriced.
I'd also avoid stewmac's template system.
Buy a set of "router template bushings" muttley referred to these earlier as "Top Hats">9 Piece Router Template Guide Set
Router's are a great tool, but they can destroy your work piece in an instant if you're not careful. There's a lot of technique that you can only learn with experience. Don't try to take too much with one cut, protect your eyes, and keep both hands on the tool.

 

[Chili]

Best way is a combination of the two. Hog out the waste with a forstner, auger or brad point bit and hit the router with a template to finish the edge and bottom. A drill press will remove a tone of stuff just as quick and you can set it to stop at a certain depth.

Ah, never heard of a forstner bit, so that makes sense to use a drill press for bulk material.

I am just about finished with my second project. A pseudo-kit I pieced together and finished with the same veneer as my previous project. I didn't knock it out of the park so that leaves me to decide if I really want to continue to pursue this as a hobby and invest in the other needed tools; drill press, band saw, spray system, etc. (I'll post up pics in a week or so in my project thread so I am not hijacking this one anymore.)

 

[muttley600]

You don't need a fixed base router... Again, on any router the week point is the collet and bearing. Those are far more likely to cause problems than the plunge base moving. The base on my three old Elu's are way more solid than the fixed base on any router I have ever used.

For the record I just totted up and I have 14 and a further 4 dead for spares.

 

[muttley600]

It';s a shame you don't seem to be able to get Trend stuff in the US, maybe you can. This is what I would go for now if my Elu's packed up. They do a 1/2". Their cutters are also the ones I use as stock.

Trend T5EB Router 50mm Plunge 240v

I forgot to take my phone with me to the workshop today so will put up some picks tomorrow as promised.

 

[muttley600]

Ah, never heard of a forstner bit, so that makes sense to use a drill press for bulk material.

I am just about finished with my second project. A pseudo-kit I pieced together and finished with the same veneer as my previous project. I didn't knock it out of the park so that leaves me to decide if I really want to continue to pursue this as a hobby and invest in the other needed tools; drill press, band saw, spray system, etc. (I'll post up pics in a week or so in my project thread so I am not hijacking this one anymore.)

A small drill press would be handy but thats all you'd need to take it to the next level. It's entirely possible to build without a bandsaw and you can get a really good finish without spray equipment. Admittedly it will take more time and you may have to buy in pre sawn lumber. Be honest what you lack is confidence.. Go for it.

I was thinking of maybe doing an online simple build-a-long here if people were interested as there seems to be quite a few that want to build a guitar but lack the place to start.. The aim being to produce a simple but functional instrument with basic tools that would be achievable by anyone with a little commitment and cover most of the basic steps.. What do you think? Maybe we could link it some cause or other.

 

[blaumph2cool]

I would definitely follow your build-a-long mutty.

 

[jimistone]

I'm fixin' to redo a Les Paul top, using a dremel and this weird grinding, sanding thing I fashioned. I'm expecting professional results!

Why all theses power tools?
I have a good sharp pocket knife. A triangular file, a wood rasp , and a manual hand cranked drill...can't I build a finished guitar from raw wood with those tools?

Just kidding I also need to buy a router...I hope $35 is a realistic budget

 

[muttley600]

Why all theses power tools?
I have a good sharp pocket knife. A triangular file, a wood rasp , and a manual hand cranked drill...can't I build a finished guitar from raw wood with those tools?

Just kidding I also need to buy a router...I hope $35 is a realistic budget

You may well scoff ( ) but when I did my first degree 25 years ago I did a years study of early fretted instruments and their construction methods and how they relate to acoustics. This period predated and ran alongside Stradavari and his peers. As you know there is a lot of bunk spoken about the so called merits of his "acoustic" model these days. As part of the investigation I was required to research and build an instrument using exactly the same tools and methods that a maker back then would have done.

I'm not sure if you lot are familiar with the Viol but it was the most popular instrument of the 16th and 17th century, more so than the lute. I chose to make one and this is a tenor viol built entirely with hand tools and methods available to makers at that time. This one is a copy of an extant instrument in a private collection I got to examine and measure. Long and the short of it is that if you have or can make decent tools you can build what you want.

Not one watt of electricity went into making this thing. It hangs on my wall in my sitting room now as a reminder of what they did and how we need to remember that they did it....

Anyway distraction aside. Like anything in life, if you really want to to do it you can...

 

[muttley600]

I would definitely follow your build-a-long mutty.

If you are serious, then we shall do it. Lets see if anyone else wants to join the fun.

Plan would be to build a functional instrument with a minimum of tools and a maximum of learning and fun. We can set some better objectives later...

 

[jimistone]

Man, that's awesome mutt!
Beautiful work. There are some old guys here in my area that can take a pocket knife and sculpt wood that will amaze.
You have to respect people who can do it with primitive hand tools.

 

[muttley600]

Man, that's awesome mutt!
Beautiful work. There are some old guys here in my area that can take a pocket knife and sculpt wood that will amaze.
You have to respect people who can do it with primitive hand tools.

Most of those tools are not primitive. Sure they take more time and a better knowledge of the materials we use but I've always considered that a good thing. Too often people these days think that power tools and brute force will get them where the craftsman is... There is still no greater joy in the workshop than a well set up plane and a properly sharp plane iron... Thats tool **** for me..

 

[Chili]

I would love to do a build-a-long but my work schedule wouldn't allow it. But I can definitely watch and poke my nose in once in a while.

That would be quite the contribution to the site. I'll mention it to chater to see if there is anything the admins can do help.

 

[Mr. C]

I don't know if I could actually participate in the build, but even if I couldn't having your guidance and expertise on this forum would be an excellent resource to refer to when I'm able. I've always wanted to build a guitar. I just suck at measuring no matter how many times I check it I always somehow manage to screw it up. I built a toy box for my granddaughter for Christmas and it was off on one side by 1/8th of an inch. Don't ask me how.

I cut a pickguard and it came out okay. It was a pain just to make the template and then when I used it to cut the plastic it just wasn't as smooth of a job as I expected it to be, but I'm living with it.

 

[Chater-La]

I was thinking of maybe doing an online simple build-a-long here if people were interested as there seems to be quite a few that want to build a guitar but lack the place to start.. The aim being to produce a simple but functional instrument with basic tools that would be achievable by anyone with a little commitment and cover most of the basic steps.. What do you think? Maybe we could link it some cause or other.

Great idea! I'd gladly promote it, via forum announcement, stickie whichever way you see fit to organize this as clean as possible.

 

[JCH]

I was thinking of maybe doing an online simple build-a-long here if people were interested as there seems to be quite a few that want to build a guitar but lack the place to start.. The aim being to produce a simple but functional instrument with basic tools that would be achievable by anyone with a little commitment and cover most of the basic steps.. What do you think? Maybe we could link it some cause or other.

If you decide to do this I could help with the logistics for people on this side of the ocean. Maybe even wind a few coils for those that want a custom pickup for their project. It would be pretty cool if 3 or 4 people decided to play along.

Trend T5EB Router 50mm Plunge 240v

That one looks nice. Chinese?

 

[muttley600]

If you decide to do this I could help with the logistics for people on this side of the ocean. Maybe even wind a few coils for those that want a custom pickup for their project. It would be pretty cool if 3 or 4 people decided to play along.

That would be good. I had it in mind that you wouold be able to contribute a little more than winding some bobbins....

I'll start a thread setting out the feasibility and objectives and see what response we get.

That one looks nice. Chinese?

They are trust me. All the guys that were used to the Elu's that I mentionjed have switched to them. I was lucky i9n that I bought a few of the Elu's because I got word that they were ceasing production back in the 90's. They really are work horses and far more precise than any router I've come across since.. I may get one of the trend ones just to test them out. Trouble is I have too many already..

 

[JCH]

I have a friend in California who owned a tool store in the 80's/90's. He was selling some Elu stuff at the time. I never used any, but I remember them to be beautifully made, and of very high quality. 30 years ago tools cost as much, or more than they do nowadays due to the Asian competition.

In '84 I returned to Cal after living in Texas for a few years. That was about the time Ryobi hit the scene. Their tools were very high quality at the time. Makita owned a lion's share of the market back then. I bought several Ryobi tools; surface planer, radial arm saw, mitre saw, big plunge router, reciprocating saw, and a drywall screw gun. They're all still getting used almost 30 years later, except for the radial arm, which I sold when I moved to Nevada, in '94. The plunge router is the one I use in my router sled. They've held up well. When I bought them I didn't have a lot of money to spend, and they were a bargain. Little did I know they would still be serviceable 3 decades later. It's too bad that the brand deteriorated to what it is now. I used to love buying tools, but the only new tools that excite me now are for making guitars.

You're the guitar maker here, I'm just a dumb ol' carpenter, but hell yeah I'll help out. Anyone who participates will be set-up to build on their own when it's over with. That's a good opportunity.

 

[muttley600]

I have a friend in California who owned a tool store in the 80's/90's. He was selling some Elu stuff at the time. I never used any, but I remember them to be beautifully made, and of very high quality. 30 years ago tools cost as much, or more than they do nowadays due to the Asian competition.

In '84 I returned to Cal after living in Texas for a few years. That was about the time Ryobi hit the scene. Their tools were very high quality at the time. Makita owned a lion's share of the market back then. I bought several Ryobi tools; surface planer, radial arm saw, mitre saw, big plunge router, reciprocating saw, and a drywall screw gun. They're all still getting used almost 30 years later, except for the radial arm, which I sold when I moved to Nevada, in '94. The plunge router is the one I use in my router sled. They've held up well. When I bought them I didn't have a lot of money to spend, and they were a bargain. Little did I know they would still be serviceable 3 decades later. It's too bad that the brand deteriorated to what it is now. I used to love buying tools, but the only new tools that excite me now are for making guitars.

You're the guitar maker here, I'm just a dumb ol' carpenter, but hell yeah I'll help out. Anyone who participates will be set-up to build on their own when it's over with. That's a good opportunity.

A lot of the problem with the quality of power tools today is the home market. The likes of Makita and Bosch set about buying up all the high end brand names back in the 90's then just stuck the name on cheaper Asian made stuff. The engineering on those tools is simply substandard as are most of the materials. At least when you compare it to what was available then. I shudder sometimes when I see what is being passed off as top end tool, both power and hand tools. Luckily I spent a lot of time as an apprentice making good steel tools and learning how to maintain them. I'm also lucky in that I have snagged a lot of stuff over the years that people considered junk because it wasn't bright yellow and shiney...

 

[JCH]

Here's a simple router jig for planing.