Drum Mixing Techniques

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MarvinG

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Hi everyone. I am running Shure 57s from snare and toms, Shure Beta 52 on kick, and two AT2020s as overheads into a PreSonus 1818 VSL, into an HP Pavilion laptop (will post specifics on the laptop later if required). I am using StudioOne Professional as DAW. Drums are Pearl Session Custom Maple. Paiste cymbals. Remo heads. Vic Firth sticks, wood tip, 7A American hickory. Room is basement with carpet floor, painted walls and ceilings. Low ceilings though, not much I can do about that.

I run separate compressors on the kick and snare, pan the overheads hard left/right, rack tom 15% left, floor tom 25% right, then run everything to a bus, which gets a bit more compression and EQ.

Also, I pull down 80hz (+/-10hz) about 1-2db on the bass guitar track to make a little more room for the kick drum.

The doubling of compressors (first on the tracks and then on the entire bus) helps to pop the drums out in my mixes without sticking way out there. I am OK with it but sometimes I feel like there is too much compression. It also creates a natural reverb, almost garage sounding quality, I assume all that compression is pulling the room dynamics out of the dead space.

How about you all? How do you mix your drum tracks to get them to pop in the mix without sticking out awkwardly in the mix? I want to hear the beat, the kick and the snare specifically, without it being unblended. Is the double compression the best way to go about doing this or is there something else I can be trying? I have tried NOT bussing my drum tracks and they really seem to get lost or I lose particular pieces of the kit as a whole. Thanks for considering my mixing technique described above (after reading the gear I am using). Please let me know if what I'm doing is the best way to go about it or if you have alternative mixing techniques.
 
Make 10 posts, you can add links.....then post some audio clips of your drum tracks/mixes.
It's kinda pointless to give you any advice and to know what you already have going on....without hearing it. :)

It's not always the same process unless you're doing the exact same style of music over and over....then you would probably find what works and stick to it.
Each song, each mix will call for something different AFA how to treat the drums. I think I only use a comp on the stereo OH pair with any regularity from song to song, but the comp settings could vary quite a bit...and the comp used my also vary. All the rest is subject to the song/mix and production goals.
 
MarvinG said:
The doubling of compressors (first on the tracks and then on the entire bus) helps to pop the drums out in my mixes without sticking way out there. I am OK with it but sometimes I feel like there is too much compression. It also creates a natural reverb, almost garage sounding quality, I assume all that compression is pulling the room dynamics out of the dead space.
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Have you tried parallel bus compression i.e send all the drums to a buss, then have a send from that buss to separate buss with the compressor on. That way you can turn the compressed buss up or down to taste. Alternatively, depending on what compressor you're using on the drum buss, some have a mix control which essentially does the same thing of blending together the compressed and uncompressed sound,

Like Miroslav said, it depends on the song as to how i treat the drums. However, at the moment i'm working on an album with 5 "rockier" songs and 4 "softer" songs, so the rockier ones get similar treatments as do the softer ones. The thing i'm digging atm on this album is heavily compressing the room mics on the rockier songs - it really helps the drums "pop" in the mix. The other thing i'm using a lot is tape saturation, especially on the softer songs - the individual parts gets very little treatment but the drum buss gets some tape saturation and parallel compression.
 
@Justsomeguy I got in there today and dialed back the compression on the mix (mix control) from 100% down to 80 then to 66 then to 33. It definitely helped the sound become less compressed but as expected it lost some of the thump and pop from the kick and snare. Seems good to know but didn't work in this case because the song gets really noisy in the last 45 seconds (lots if guitars and keys come in) and without comp at 100% the drums can't keep up. So do I sacrifice 2:45 for the final :45 sounding good?

I thought about splitting the drum tracks so one setting w/ less compressor runs until 2:45 and then at final :45 compressor kicks up to 100%. Is that weird? I was always taught "set it and forget it" with respect to individual tracks.
 
MarvinG said:
@Justsomeguy I got in there today and dialed back the compression on the mix (mix control) from 100% down to 80 then to 66 then to 33. It definitely helped the sound become less compressed but as expected it lost some of the thump and pop from the kick and snare. Seems good to know but didn't work in this case because the song gets really noisy in the last 45 seconds (lots if guitars and keys come in) and without comp at 100% the drums can't keep up. So do I sacrifice 2:45 for the final :45 sounding good?

I thought about splitting the drum tracks so one setting w/ less compressor runs until 2:45 and then at final :45 compressor kicks up to 100%. Is that weird? I was always taught "set it and forget it" with respect to individual tracks.
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Nothing is weird when it comes to mixing. Every song is different.

That being said, I can't think of times that I have automated compression settings for drums in a mix. I would look closer at what the build up of instruments at the end of your tune. It may be more an issue of so much going on that you need to pull back some of the levels or fit them to the mix on those.

I really can't give an opinion without hearing what you are working with.

And again, I must say that I never intended to offend you Marvin, or be mean in any way. I am only here because I wish to learn from and help any member here with whatever experience I have.
 
@jimmys69 I went back a re-read that disastrous other thread and can see how it would seem I was offended. I really wasn't. I was however over the line in terms of pushing a trivial thing and shouldn't have kept on like I did. I apologize for being rude or disrespectful.

Yeah, automating compression seems pretty out to lunch. There are two background vox panned hard left and right doing the exact same note/sequence as four (yikes!) other synth parts, so I'm gonna go after yanking those two vox out tonight and see if that helps. I'll put the mp3 up on Soundcloud so you all can get some context.
 
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@miroslav I may have come off as rude to you in that other thread and for that I apologize. It was not my intention to be rude or disrespectful. In re-reading what I wrote I can see how it could come across that way.

In the spirit of keeping it real, I'll admit that I should not have pushed the issue and can see how the original thread was indeed vague.
 
No, I keep it real, which is what got me into that mess in the first place (sometimes reality ain't what it seems). So that said, when I'm wrong I'm wrong and I quickly admit it as soon as I realize it.
 
Dude, you'll never last in here. No one admits when they're wrong and no one apologizes for anything. I'm keeping it real.
 
Greg_L said:
Dude, you'll never last in here. No one admits when they're wrong and no one apologizes for anything. I'm keeping it real.
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Aw come on Greg. I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. Some of us just have bad days. I do and have said stupid shit because I was in a bad mood.

Let this one go please. :)

Not everyday someone takes a step back. May not be as fun, but the site is for learning right?
 
MarvinG said:
@miroslav I may have come off as rude to you in that other thread and for that I apologize.
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Rude to me...?

Nope, not at all.
You had a lot more room to work with. :)

I just thought you got too seriously focused on the thread getting moved, and it wasn't that big a deal, IMHO.
Like I said, keep if funny....then you can still bust Jimmy's balls for moving the thread, and at least it will be entertaining. :D
 
BTW, I accidentally neg repped the guy. Sorry Marvin! I have no options to fix that. PM to admin to fix.

I love a good ball busting! Somebody start a Jimmy ball busting thread! :)
 
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