Recording low watt guitar amps (anything different?)

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Battie

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Undoubtedly, there are many advantages to using small, low watt tube amps for studio recording, but I'm interested to know if the recording process is any different when using a small amp, such as the 1 watt Blackstar HT-1 10" combo, to using a higher watt amp with a 12" speaker. From one sample recording I've heard of the HT-1 via an SM57, it seems the 10" combo has a good but narrower, thinner sound compared to the same amp through the 12" extension cab, which had more depth, and a fuller sound. Not a surprise, but is that actually a problem? When I mix guitars I usually roll off a lot of the lower frequencies anyway. Is there a reason why a 12" would be preferable to a 10"? Will a mic that is generally used for recording lower frequencies (MD421, RE20, D112 etc.) bring out more in a 10" and provide more depth and a fuller sound? Will placing the mic further away from the grill cloth also deliver more depth?

Just some initial research to help with purchasing decisions. I'll naturally experiment with whatever I end up buying.

Thanks in advance...
 
Battie said:
Undoubtedly, there are many advantages to using small, low watt tube amps for studio recording, but I'm interested to know if the recording process is any different when using a small amp, such as the 1 watt Blackstar HT-1 10" combo, to using a higher watt amp with a 12" speaker. From one sample recording I've heard of the HT-1 via an SM57, it seems the 10" combo has a good but narrower, thinner sound compared to the same amp through the 12" extension cab, which had more depth, and a fuller sound. Not a surprise, but is that actually a problem? When I mix guitars I usually roll off a lot of the lower frequencies anyway. Is there a reason why a 12" would be preferable to a 10"? Will a mic that is generally used for recording lower frequencies (MD421, RE20, D112 etc.) bring out more in a 10" and provide more depth and a fuller sound? Will placing the mic further away from the grill cloth also deliver more depth?

Just some initial research to help with purchasing decisions. I'll naturally experiment with whatever I end up buying.

Thanks in advance...
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Depends on the song and what you are going for. But, it can work very well. One of the tunes by Annie Chavelle on my demos sounds like huge massive amps. But, in fact it was a Carr Rambler amp. Lol Not the amp you would think of when you hear it. But everyone loves the sound. You should be fine. One thing I do differently is back the mic off a bit more than I would for a big amp, gives it a bit more depth.
 
I have the amp you mentioned and all the mics you mentioned.
I don't record heavy guitar all that much but I was a little disappointed with the miced up sound of the amp.
Funny enough, it sounded smaller and weaker than you'd want….like a small speaker in a small box….Who knew. :p

I actually prefer the miced up sound of my DIY deacy amplifier and it's built in an honest-to-god 6" hifi speaker.

To be fair, I didn't experiment with increasing distance between mic and amp so maybe there's something to be said for that.

Btw, unless there's another version I'm not aware of, the HT1 + HT1r combos have 8" speakers.
I just threw a tape up to the aperture on mine and it measures at 7".
 
My limited experience with this realm, is that low-watt tube amps are great, but you have to push them through some decent speakers. A single 10" wouldn't cut it. You got to have at least a 12", or a 4x10".
 
Seafroggys said:
My limited experience with this realm, is that low-watt tube amps are great, but you have to push them through some decent speakers. A single 10" wouldn't cut it. You got to have at least a 12", or a 4x10".
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I'm not sure I agree with this. I have had good experience with combo amps with 10" speaker. It surely has more to do with the style/genre in tone that is wanted.
 
A lot of reviewers say the HT-1s clean channel lacks something in character but that the overdrive channel excels. I usually play clean to something in between so I may look at other options, or perhaps just step up to the HT-5R. I still like the idea of an 8" speaker though and still curious about ways of cheating physics.
 
If anywhere near clean interests you I'd definitely look at other options.
Do get any half reasonable volume from that amp it has to be going at it pretty crunchy.
 
That's the whole idea behind low wattage tube amps. Because saturation requires pushing those tubes, and if its a loud amp, its gonna have to be CRANKED to get that. People don't buy low wattage tube amps for cleanliness.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I have had good experience with combo amps with 10" speaker. It surely has more to do with the style/genre in tone that is wanted.
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Again, limited experience. I got great sounds out of a 5 watt amp cranked through a 4x10.
 
The problem with these little amps and cabs IMO is simple headroom. Yes, a 50 or 100 w amp is ridiculously call-the-cops-the-end-of-the-world-is-here loud, but it's such a good loud. They have so much depth and chunk and dimension. Headroom. A low wattage amp cranked to get saturation at modest volumes can sound great, but it's flattened. It doesn't have the percussive chunk and dynamics that a bigger wattage amp has. It just can't do it. And small speakers and small cabs do usually sound small because they are. But that doesn't mean you can't get good tracks with it.

I prefer a single 12" speaker over a single 10, but a cab full of 10s sounds great to me. Mic choice and placement could indeed get you the sound you want. Tiny little movements in mic placement makes a difference. Try an LDC. They can sound fuller with better bottom end.
 
I've tried the real low-wattage approach, and yeah, there's some really sweet tones available in sub-5 watt stuff....but like Greg said, there's usually zero to very little headroom. You end up having to hit maybe 1-2 sweet spots that the low-wattage amp has, and that's what you got. Mind you, it's not a bad thing....'cuz those couple of sweet spots are REALLY sweet, since that's how the amp was designed....but you don't get a heck of a lot of "dial 'em in" options like you can with bigger amps.

None of my amps do much over the 30-ish watts, but a couple of them are real monsters. My Dr Z Rt 66 will hurt you at full volume as much as some 100W amps. I just can't stand in front of it without anything covering my ears...and my Carr Hammerhead and Rivera Chubster 40 also kick some serious ass when cranked. I don't stand in front of them either.

That said, these days, I find myself preferring the crunch/distortion and overall feel of these amps cranked.
So....I stepped away from the low-wattage stuff, and even stopped using my attenuators on these louder amps.
There's just something about a couple of KT66 or EL34 tubes dimed that can never be touched by a low-wattage amp.
Of course, I record with my closed-back headphones always over my ears, and I don't have anyone that will complain about the volume....even at 3AM.....but I do understand that for some folks that is the #1 reason they are using low-wattage amps, so you just make 'em work for you, and there are some great options in low-wattage amps out there.

Anyway....when I did use the low-wattage stuff, I would just hook it up to a "normal" 112 cab....and I would mike that the same as I would any other amp/cab combination. I often like the mic back 8"-16", but sometimes it's right up agtainst the grill....all depends on where the best tone is, and if I want that in-your-face sound or something with a little more air.
I also prefer a 12" speaker, but I've enjoyed using a 15" in the past on occasion, and while I've played through some cabs with 10" speakers, I never owned them, but I've always wanted to get a Tweed Bassman with the 410 cab....'cuz they are bad-ass.
 
Pretty much everything that's been said about headroom, mic placement, etc., is exactly right. I know all too well about the low watt amp for recording, I've got 2 of 'em & a couple 1x12's....

I've struggled getting a chunky sound with my little amps until I tried a LDC mic (Samson CO-1), & that seems to have helped a lot. The '57 I have just wouldn't capture the "thump"/low end like I wanted, mainly, because it isn't there like with a big amp, so keep that in mind...

Another trick I've learned lately is using a room reverb on my guitar tracks. Combined with the condensor, it seems to add the chunk/bottom end I'd been missing all along...IIRC, I keep the room 'verb's mix at 20% or less, but I use it on each guitar track...I use an ISO cab, & of course it's super dry, so the room 'verb helps a lot.....

Good luck & keep us posted!!!
 
Try a Cascade Fat Head ribbon for low-end chunk....or my current favorite dynamic for guitar, AKG D1000E, which can be found used on eBay for around $50, and comes with a 3-position EQ switch.
 
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Greg_L again.
 
That vid brings to mind what would happen if me & Greg were ever to jam/record together.:laughings:..

While I'd love to use a big amp like that, it just ain't gonna happen for a while anyway, so the low-watters will have to work....for now...we might be coming into some $$$ before too long (long story, all I'm gonna say is medical malpractice), but maybe, just maybe the low watt amps won't be a permanent thing for me....
 
minerman said:
That vid brings to mind what would happen if me & Greg were ever to jam/record together.:laughings:..

While I'd love to use a big amp like that, it just ain't gonna happen for a while anyway, so the low-watters will have to work....for now...we might be coming into some $$$ before too long (long story, all I'm gonna say is medical malpractice), but maybe, just maybe the low watt amps won't be a permanent thing for me....
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You get the best baby-watt tones I've ever heard, so I'd say don't sweat it unless you plan on playing live.
 
Just out of curiousity I wonder what layering a baby amp (I have one of those Vox 4W things) with a real amp (Laney 30W tube) played at reasonable volume with a touch of crunch would do...

I totally get the flat sounding effect you get with driving the baby amp hard, and there's no way I can ever turn my Laney up enough in the apartment to really get the full body distortion sound I know it can deliver, but I do get nice, not too loud, crunchy sounds that have a lot of depth. Must take a DI out and try it sometime...
 
Greg_L said:
You get the best baby-watt tones I've ever heard, so I'd say don't sweat it unless you plan on playing live.
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:eek: Wow dude, quite a compliement coming from you, so thaaaaanks a bunch dude!!!! Don't think playing live is gonna be in my future really, you never know, but I'd doubt it very seriously....Thanks again Greg...
 
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