the volume war has been won!!!

[Greg_L]

that's just simply not true. I have thousands of LPs and their volume levels are all over the map.

So do I, and same with CDs. I have CDs and albums that are loud and not so loud. None of it matters to me. My point is that those old records aren't so "beautifully dynamic" because they produced them that way. That's just how it worked out. The limitations of the equipment forced them to be that way. It was a happy accident.

 

[Greg_L]

for sure ..... music is done as an industry. Sure .... we all love it .... but the public has mostly moved on to other things. For the vast majority of people music has become something they put on in the background while they do something else.

Agreed, and that's why this is even more goofy to me. No one actually cares. The only people that care about this stuff are internet audiophiles and dinosaur mastering engineers. 99% of the music listening general public could not care less about loudness or dynamics. They bop around with only one earbud in place half the time.

 

[grimtraveller]

And if anyone comes into this thread with the eternally stupid "If you want it loud, just turn up the volume", I'm going to reach through my computer and punch them in the brain.

Well, you could just turn the volume up.......or dowOUCH !

It's a stupid "solution", if for no other reason than you're going to forget to turn it back down for the next tune and you'll end up blowing your head off or blowing your speakers up.

I'm possibly in the minority here but as far back as I can recall, I've never had issues making the odd adjustment volume wise when a song is a bit quiet or loud. It's extremely rare that this has ever happened though.
Back in the walkman days, I used to record my albums onto tape as loud as they would go without totally wrecking the sound {though sometimes I did !} for the express reason that I wouldn't have to make volume adjustments as I was listening to stuff while riding a bike on a busy road or travelling on a train or in a car.
But even with smashed recordings of nowadays, they still differ from song to song, album to album. I don't find the volumes to be identical but the discrepancy is never so bad either way that my ears get blasted, neither was it in 'the old days'.

I'm still going to try to get my tunes as loud as I can while still sounding as good as possible. Bottom line.

Like I said earlier, before most of us on this site were born, there was a kind of arms race in terms of getting the loudest masters possible. I don't recall albums sounding bad because of their loudness or lack of it although I did notice from 1981 that if you played a stack of albums with the volume knob at the same level, some were much louder than others and it wasn't connected with the style of music.
The logic behind loud masters in the 60s was that louder sounded better because you could hear everything with greater impact. But even if a quiet song or section of a song was mastered loud, it was still quiet in relation to the other songs {or parts of songs} that weren't, because everything was proportionate.

There are as many shitty "dynamic" albums are there are shitty "loud" albums

This may not be the bottom line but over the last 80 years it's certainly been the reality. The main issue for me has long been, is the album/song good and worth keeping, not is it too loud or too quiet.

 

[RAMI]

But even with smashed recordings of nowadays, they still differ from song to song, album to album. I don't find the volumes to be identical but the discrepancy is never so bad either way that my ears get blasted, neither was it in 'the old days

No, but you're comparing "smashed records of today" with "smashed records of today", and "old records" with "old records". I used to make mix cassettes for when I'd go work out, and I'd have everything from Van Halen to old James Brown, and believe me, there was a huge difference between a lot of them. I never blew my head off though, becasue when I came to a song that was way lower, I'd hit SKIP. So, basically, if you don't want people to listen to your music, record it way lower than everything else and enjoy the whole dynamics thing.

 

[Greg_L]

The Quiet War is just beginning!


I'm claiming it. I called it first. "Quiet War" and any alternate phrasing that could mean the same thing is a registered trademark copyright owned by me.

 

[miroslav]

99% of the music listening general public could not care less about loudness or dynamics..

And this is the underlying point of the new iPod algorithms and what I was saying about "general public trends".

The general public will eat whatever is served to them. The obsession with loudness wasn't caused or asked for by the GP, but by artists who realized that they can push the levels up, up, up.
Now, AFA how loud something should be is still in "your" hands, but if the iTunes algorithms become the "standard" for audio files, the general public will not care, as you say, and that new standard will become the norm...and THAT is what the article is talking about, that loudness will ultimately be lowered industry-wide, regardless of how loud something is mastered, with the consequence that anything still done too LOUD will get mangled by the algorithm, so eventually artists/studios will be forced to abandon the loudness obsession.

Of course, as I said, for the home-rec guys who just make audio for their own pleasure primarily and are not going to use any commercial distribution, like iTunes....you can still make you mixes LOUD!...but if/when the iTunes becomes a global standard, even the home-rec guys will eventually follow, because that's what they do...they want to match "commercial standards".

Time will tell if it actually happens.....

 

[RAMI]

Ah fuck........I'll see you guys on page 15.

 

[Greg_L]

Ah fuck........I'll see you guys on page 15.

This thread has been miroslaved. We are not worthy!

 

[miroslav]

It's just that you're still arguing the "who cares if it's loud" theme...and this thread has nothing to do with that.

 

[Greg_L]

miroslav has spoken!

 

[Armistice]

Soon, someone will recalibrate everything and we'll be able to go beyond the zero...

 

[Lt. Bob]

Agreed, and that's why this is even more goofy to me. No one actually cares. The only people that care about this stuff are internet audiophiles and dinosaur mastering engineers. 99% of the music listening general public could not care less about loudness or dynamics. They bop around with only one earbud in place half the time.

totally agree ...... and I make my music for me so if someone ever complained that they had to turn mine up 'because it wasn't loud enough' I'd tell them I didn't care at all.

I'm possibly in the minority here but as far back as I can recall, I've never had issues making the odd adjustment volume wise when a song is a bit quiet or loud. It's extremely rare that this has ever happened though.
.

same here ..... it doesn't bother me even a tiny bit to adjust my volume ..... it's not even something I think about.

I never blew my head off though, becasue when I came to a song that was way lower, I'd hit SKIP.

I'm not seeing how reaching over and turning the volume up is any harder than reaching over and hitting skip. Further ..... you'd skip a song that you liked rather than turn it up enough to be heard?
I'll have to say I don't get that ..... does that mean there's no songs you like enough to turn up the volume?

 

[Greg_L]

Just turn it down! That's what the volume knob is for!

 

[Telegram Sam]

Songs are recorded at all different volumes. I deal with a lot of songs (30,000 song library, typical playlist around 1000 songs). I end up using software to set the mp3 volume to each song (I use 92 db), and then I still have to run everything through an ART Pro VLA II to get it to all sound like it is all around the same volume. This way I don't have to touch the volume until the RW backround noise increases. Before I went down this road it was pretty nuts trying to program background music. If I connect my system straight to an online service (like slacker radio) I get to hear again how crappy it was before. It seems like they don't do anything to control it, but surely they must.

 

[RAMI]

I'm not seeing how reaching over and turning the volume up is any harder than reaching over and hitting skip. Further ..... you'd skip a song that you liked rather than turn it up enough to be heard?
I'll have to say I don't get that ..... does that mean there's no songs you like enough to turn up the volume?

The volume knob is not always right there beside you. You enjoy running back and forth to the living room when you're listening to music in your kitchen???? And then , like I said, you forget that the next song is way louder than the one you just turned up. You either got to run back and turn ut back down or forget and blow up your speakers. It's not realistic.

And, yes, I would often skip a song I like if it was too low because I didn't want to go back and forth with the volume knob. I also didn't want to forget the next song was going to rip my head off.
"Just turn it up" is a stupid thing to say and most people won't do that after having their speakers almost blow up a few times.

Funny, people are saying this whole "standardization" of volume is a good thing. At the same time, some of the same people are saying there's nothing wrong with drastically various volumes. Make up your minds. Don't just change your arguments for the sake of keeping up an argument. That's just stupid.
Besides, we're slightly off-topic. I'm less concerned with the volumes of a bunch of tunes I might make a mix of . It's more a matter of I don't want my song to be the one that's way lower than everything else, making it the only one that will have to be turned up or skipped. I'll mix my music at the volume I think is right. It still sounds great.

To be honest, I always find I like the sound of my music mastered better than un-mastered. I like a "smashed" sound, within reason. I bet more people like it than will admit it, too.

 

[Lt. Bob]

"Just turn it up" is a stupid thing to say .

no ...... saying THAT was a stupid thing to say .... not everyone does things like you do.
I believe I said that I have no problem turning the volume up and down as needed. So did Greg ..... so did Grim ....... we're lying?

I don't agree with you on this ..... and I may be many things but stupid is not one of them.

And the only reason I think this might be a good thing has nothing to do with me wanting things at a constant volume since I don't use iTunes or ANY of the streaming services. I just think it'd be nice if a standard got musicians to quit compressing the life out of everything. That's the only reason.

I'm indifferent to the consistent volume issue ..... don't care at all ...... not even a tiny bit. And my own recordings have zero compression on them and are always pretty damned quiet ....... means absolutely nothing to me. But I really hate overly compressed recordings ........ don't like the way they sound.

 

[Dogbreath]

Just turn it down.

 

[RAMI]

no ...... saying THAT was a stupid thing to say .... not everyone does things like you do.
I believe I said that I have no problem turning the volume up and down as needed. So did Greg ..... so did Grim ....... we're lying?

I don't agree with you on this ..... and I may be many things but stupid is not one of them.

Hehe...Bob, you kill me man. You need to relax, watch your blood pressure. None of this is really that important.

I guess I'm supposed to change my opinion because you, Greg and Grim don't agree.

(...and I can guarantee you that your statement about certain people disagreeing with me is false. But if you feel the need to drag other people into it to validate your opinion, that just proves that you barely believe your own bullshit.)

But, you're still wrong. Saying "Just turn it up" is a very stupid thing to say because it's not realistic, for the reasons I gave above. No big deal, try to get over it.

 

[RAMI]

Just turn it left.

 

[miroslav]

No...turn right.