Recorder for Live Performances

  • Thread starter Thread starter Damon_nomaD
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Damon_nomaD

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Hi All,
I'm a musician interested in recording live performances as a way to improve and to help with marketing. I've been using digital cameras with internal microphones. I've just purchased a GoPro HERO 3 Black camera, and looking for a high quality recorder I can connect to the CD/TAPE output on my pedal board mixer to capture my live sound. The recorder should be simple to use and not need tweaking during the show since it will be on the pedal board. I plan to edit the audio afterwards with something like Audacity and then synch with the video to produce YouTube videos.

Any guidance is appreciated.

Thanks,
Damon
writeleftwritedotcom
 
Damon_nomaD said:
Hi All,
I'm a musician interested in recording live performances as a way to improve and to help with marketing. I've been using digital cameras with internal microphones. I've just purchased a GoPro HERO 3 Black camera, and looking for a high quality recorder I can connect to the CD/TAPE output on my pedal board mixer to capture my live sound. The recorder should be simple to use and not need tweaking during the show since it will be on the pedal board. I plan to edit the audio afterwards with something like Audacity and then synch with the video to produce YouTube videos.

Any guidance is appreciated.

Thanks,
Damon
writeleftwritedotcom
Click to expand...

I would think one of the Portastudios would be what you might want. Then do your mic in Reaper (I only suggest this as the price is rather inexpensive). The Tascam has some decent reasonably priced units. I would let other comment better on that as I have not purchased on yet, but I am have been looking at them for the same reason. Nice thing about most of these portasutdios now is that, you can record your tracks, move them to a DAW and complete your mixing. That is pretty nice.

Hope this helps a little.
 
A Portastudio might work. At first glance the ones with mixers seem more than I need, since I'll be recording down stream of my pedal board mixer. I'm essentially looking for plug-n-play.
 
Damon_nomaD said:
A Portastudio might work. At first glance the ones with mixers seem more than I need, since I'll be recording down stream of my pedal board mixer. I'm essentially looking for plug-n-play.
Click to expand...

One thing I would say getting a live performance is only half the battle. Getting it mixed right and naturally for hand outs and posting, you really want to tweak the mix before presenting. Since these types of machines are stand alone, for the most part, you record to a media, then move them to a computer and into a DAW for further processing. Not much interfacing has to be done with these, just moving tracks from one source to another. At least you can get your tracks recorded and sounding good (at the source) and then improve on the mix. I would think to get a decent recording, at least 8 inputs are required (which most have). And the price point isn't too bad. If you have a decent computer and just mixing and rendering in something like a Reaper, you should be able to get close to what you want with little computer knowledge.

Now, the DAW might be different, but at this point, if you are just mixing (no FX processing and purity mix), you should not have much of a learning curve (most you would need to learn at the early stage is fader automation and make sure you don't clip. So, just tacking tracks from one component to another is the most short term learning you would have to do in regards to the interface.

Worth a look and gives you future options.
 
mjbphotos said:
How about the Zoom H2n?
Click to expand...
I was going to recommend that, too. Though I don't record bands, when I travel internationally I like to shoot comprehensive video which often includes local musicians. I use a Zoom H2n with an external stereo mike (I have several, depending on the circumstances) and sync in post. The results far exceed what I get from just the on-camera mike. I'm also a little surprised at the choice of a Hero 3. These are great cameras for their intended purpose, which is shooting in adverse physical conditions where it is not necessary to monitor the composition, e.g. as helmet cams, cams attached to cars or motorcycles, while skiing, dangerous environments, etc. I couldn't imagine using one for primary image capture in a controlled and controllable environment like a club. Among other things, these cams are extremely wide angle.
 
OK, hang on a second. First of all, the mix that comes out of the PA mixing board is not necessarily going to provide a good sound if captured direct to digital from the board. The mix is going to be EQ'd and processed for what sounds best in the venue, and that's going to be very different from the flat sound you would need if you're going to do a proper mixing job in post. MAYBE if you could capture from the pre-sends you could avoid this, but then you'll need some kind of multi-input audio interface. How many channels are you talking about? Anything more than 8 to 12 and you're talking about (1) some serious bucks for the audio interface, and (2) some fairly hefty processing power on a laptop (unless you consider one of the all-in-one Portastudios).

What, exactly, do you want to do with this video? Is it just for archival purposes or are you trying to make a music video?
 
YouTube videos - taking an output from my mixer CD/TAPE output of my vocal and guitar, plus the occasional pre-recorded backing track or drum track, that resembles what the audience is hearing in a club during a live performance.
 
Will you be recording in a studio, as opposed to a live venue? I don't mean to be difficult -- I just can't get a handle on what you want the end result to look like (and I'm still confused about the choice of the Hero 3 :)).
 
Even if it isn't perfect (which it won't be), having as many sources to make it better for the post mix down seems to be better than just taking a single shot/source recording. My thinking is (and it is just that, just thinking) that sourcing it with 8 inputs, while not optimal would be a good compromise to get a decent recording and a chance at a reasonable mix for demos and just decent listening of live stuff.

If you come off of the boards, you should be able to good a decent recording.
 
The Zoom unit seems like what you'd want. It's small, battery powered and pretty flexible. You could also use it for other purposes. You might consider the H4n also.

What "control of the audio" do you need? You're just recording stereo audio. You wind up with a wav (or mp3, if you're so inclined) file that you transfer to your computer, whereupon you can do whatever you want to it without regard to where it started out. The only control you need is to get the level right. You might also want to put a limiter on in case the level surprises you, which the Zoom unit has (I think ... the H4n does, anyway).

On the side-subject of what you're recording, I'm also a little confused. That isn't what you were asking about, though, so I suppose it doesn't matter. Generally, any PA/whatever feed is going to be odd in a number of ways. In addition to having some processing for the room, unless you're in a huge venue or something, the instruments will be way low, because the amps/drums make quite a bit of noise all by themselves.

If you want to make a really good-sounding live recording, that would involve doing quite a bit - probably beyond what's really necessary for your purpose.
 
Live Venue. GoPro because it's small (I can hide it easily), I can control it wirelessly from my iPhone, and with its battery pack can last for 3 hours of recording.
 
Damon_nomaD said:
Live Venue. GoPro because it's small (I can hide it easily), I can control it wirelessly from my iPhone, and with its battery pack can last for 3 hours of recording.
Click to expand...

That is a camera or did I find the wrong results?
 
Damon_nomaD said:
Live Venue. GoPro because it's small (I can hide it easily), I can control it wirelessly from my iPhone, and with its battery pack can last for 3 hours of recording.
Click to expand...
Um, is this an unauthorized recording that you're contemplating, or do you have consent from the venue and the band?

DM60 said:
That is a camera or did I find the wrong results?
Click to expand...
It's a video camera:

HERO3 Black Edition | Wi-Fi enabled | Most Advanced HD GoPro Ever

It's an amazing camera for what it does, but it would never be my first choice for recording live performances.
 
I am the band ;-) The GoPro works fine. It's the audio I need help with. I was considering the Zoom if it simple to use since I'm unable to tweak setting once I start performing
 
The Zoom is as simple as it gets, and has a rather decent set of on-board mikes. If you're satisfied with the video from the GoPro, then you'll be satisfied with the audio from the H2.
 
I've been using an H4n for years while recording my band's gigs and practices. I got the H4n because it records 4 track (2 built in mics and 2 additional inputs for mic/line) and had great results. I still use it to record the open mic I run and as a back up to how I do things now. I currently use 2 R24's linked via USB which gives me up to 16 inputs at once. I currently use 10 for my band which includes drums, amps and vocals (we don't play big enough places to mic everything through the board so I run the mics directly into the R24's except for what is going through the board, in which case I use the direct out from my board). I then import it all into my computer and mix. The results have been much better than just the H4n as I have total control of everything. I have some samples of both if you want to hear them.

In your case, it really comes down to how many inputs you want and how much of a pain in the ass you want it to be while you're setting up all of your other shit for a gig.

Hope that helps.

Bill L
 
Thanks everyone. For starters, I've order a Zoom H2 and may upgrade to an H4n if I ever need the built in mics. Planning only to need the inputs.

Until it arrives, I'm using the basic sound recorder on my PC synched with the video edited in a trial version of Pinnacle Studio. My first attempt is on YouTube as The Letter by Damon (practice session). For beginnings, does any recommend a program other than Pinnacle?
 
Important to be able to take a direct feed into a recorder that accepts an XLR input for "pro" quality sound. The earlier Zoom units have known issues with noisy preamps. The new H6 has a much lower noise floor. I just got one and it works great, plus it can accept 4-6 XLRs depending on if you've got the adapter. I have tons of experience using a Marantz PMD661 (two XLRs in) and it has produced very good quality recordings during live performances.
 
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