My monitor arrangement. Am I crazy?

[Bip Bop]

For many years I have used Spirit Absolute 2 monitors and have been happy. A friend gave me his old hi-fi speakers celestial Ditton 22 and I tried them out. I found the Ab2 bassier but the Celestions more detailed in the mid range.
I put them together as in the attached pic and played some some commercial tracks through them (both sets simultaneously) and it sounded great.

I've been using them together and seem to be getting good mixes- sounding good when I play them elsewhere.
Is this a crazy thing to do. I imagine I'm breaking every rule in the book but if Beyonce or Beethoven sounds good through them then all I have to do is make my tracks sound good through them, no?

 

[JimmyS1969]

I would say whatever works for you and translates well on other systems, is not crazy at all. Whatever works for you man.

 

[Bip Bop]

I would say whatever works for you and translates well on other systems, is not crazy at all. Whatever works for you man.

But other people look sceptically at me.
There is so much talk about monitors and such a range of prices. There must be a reason why people pay loads-a-money for some makes, methinks, but I can't work it out!

 

[miroslav]

Well....looking at your picture, I wouldn't have the monitors down on the same flat, hard surface as your other gear, and there should be some sort of de-coupling layer between the desk and the monitors.
Also, your room looks like just bare sheetrock walls.....not great for a mixing environment.

AFA the actual monitors you use...it's kinda' up to you AFA what works for you, though actual mixing *monitors* (not Hi-Fi speakers) will make mixing easier.
Hi-Fi speakers tend to be hyped in the low and high end....which makes music sound better for pure listening, but not what you want for mixing.

If it all meets your expectations with your end-product...then don't change anything.

 

[JimmyS1969]

But other people look sceptically at me.
There is so much talk about monitors and such a range of prices. There must be a reason why people pay loads-a-money for some makes, methinks, but I can't work it out!

Well, you likely won't understand the difference until you try some decent monitors in your room. I don't know if you have dealers in UK that will allow you to try monitors in your home, and return at no expense. That would be ideal.

I also agree with miro. You need to decouple those monitors from your desk. The desk itself will resonate. And definitely get some room treatment going on in your space. I would recommend that before upgrading your monitors. Cheaper too, if you have some DIY skills. Best bang for the buck IMO.

Oh, and some smaller 5" 'studio monitors' have hyped low end as well. Just because something is labelled as a studio monitor, does not actually mean anything. That being said, you can mix on anything you wish. How well they accurately produce what you are listening to, is what matters. In the end, if what you have is working for you, then go with that. You will find things get much easier when you have a properly treated room, and a pair of monitors that are accurate.

 

[miroslav]

Oh, and some smaller 5" 'studio monitors' have hyped low end as well. Just because something is labelled as a studio monitor, does not actually mean anything.

Well yeah, there's been an explosion of so-called "studio monitors" on the market........but I find that most of the small ones aren't adequate...thing is, with the concept of a "studio" turning into an ITB setup in the back of someone's bedroom for many, many people.... it's made those small monitors the hot item in the home rec world.

I have a pair of decent sized JBLs with 5.5" speakers, but next to my larger Mackies they just sound very tubby and dull in the low end. I never, ever use them for anything. They're just there as an absolute emergency backup pair....though I know that if my Mackies died on me, I wouldn't bother mixing on the JBLs until I got some decent replacements.

 

[witzendoz]

Use the 2 sets by all means, but why don't you stand them up so that the imaging is correct, Place the Absolutes inside and the Ditton outside. You also should have them at ear height.

Alan.

 

[Bobbsy]

The Celestion Dittons are actually darn nice speakers--probably a lot more "monitoresque" than a good many of the small, cheap so-called monitors these days.

I'd agree with the comment suggesting you stand them up--you'll get a lot more accurate stereo imaging that way.

However, a general comment: the purpose of monitors is not to sound "good". It's to sound accurate and show you any and all flaws in your recordings and mixes. The mark of a good monitor is that a mix that sound right on it will also sound right on a wide range of other playback devices, ranging from ear buds to car stereos to top of the range hifi units. If you can do that then your arrangement is fine!

 

[ecc83]

Those Dittons are a mirrored pair and intended for vertical operation only (and at more than nearfield distances)
If they MUST be horizontal, flip them over so that the tweeters are on the inside.
Best vertical but then you will need them upside down to get the tweeter at ear level when seated.

Those speakers are most likely an IB design and therefore have a tighter, more accurate low end than most cheap ported monitors of today (it is a continuing myth anyway that "hi-fi" speakers are tarted up to sound good. Mssrs KEF, Harbeth, Castle, Rogers, Spendor, Quad and many others of that era would be appalled at the very idea!) .

Worth investing in a cheap SPL (C weighting) meter and getting it all calibrated. And FFS do something about that back wall!

Dave.

 

[Bobbsy]

I have some 1977 vintage Celestion Ditton 25s that I use (at normal room distances) as a "sit back with a coffee" check. Even as old as they are, they sound as accurate as some very good studio monitors, particularly in mids and highs. They're the one with the auxiliary bass radiator--they claim a response down to 40 Hz but always sound just slightly uncontrolled to me (but far from horrible--I'm splitting hairs here). They're happiest at fairly high SPL levels.

Anyhow, agree with everything ECC83 said about positioning.

 

[Mr Clean]

Whatever works for you and your set up. Spend time listening to music through your speakers and learn to read them.

I still use an old pair of Wharfedale Atlantic 300's. They're loud as hell and nice and clean/clear. I know them well.

 

[Bip Bop]

Thanks for the replies. As I kinda expected there are a variety of opinions to choose from!
The tweeters of the Celestions are more or less at ear height and since more bass was coming out the Absolutes, I put them beneath.

As for sounding 'accurate'? That is a tricky issue I find. Before the sound reaches my ears it's coming out of my Mac through a Motu Ultralight> mackie 1604> Dennon amp!
I suppose it's all relative. If I take my mixes to the car, kitchen stereo, ipod etc and I find I'm pleased with the result I suppose all is well but I realise there may be even better results to be had if I got the room treatment better positioning and expensive monitors but I won't know until I try.
I have to say that I believe I'm getting better results compared to when I just had the Absolutes upright.

 

[Bip Bop]

Those Dittons are a mirrored pair and intended for vertical operation only (and at more than nearfield distances)
If they MUST be horizontal, flip them over so that the tweeters are on the inside.
Best vertical but then you will need them upside down to get the tweeter at ear level when seated.

Those speakers are most likely an IB design and therefore have a tighter, more accurate low end than most cheap ported monitors of today (it is a continuing myth anyway that "hi-fi" speakers are tarted up to sound good. Mssrs KEF, Harbeth, Castle, Rogers, Spendor, Quad and many others of that era would be appalled at the very idea!) .

Worth investing in a cheap SPL (C weighting) meter and getting it all calibrated. And FFS do something about that back wall!

Dave.

But I thought it is better to have the bass coming from the centre, that's why I have them with the tweeters out. Why do you say to have the tweeters on the inside?

The wall is ply-wood or something behind which is a cavity filled with rock-wool the other side of which is some sort of concrete panel wall- yup it's a converted garage.
Does that make it less of an issue?

PS. I generally mix fairly quietly.

 

[miroslav]

To tell the truth....I don't know why you even have them on their sides...?
They should be placed vertically.

Then...since you like them better than the Absolutes...you can just remove the Absolutes and have the Dittons at the right height and in the right position.
Unless monitors are specifically designed for horizontal placement....they shouldn't be turned on their sides, because you screw up the symmetry of the frequency response, and it will be very noticable when you shift your horizontal head position even slightly.
When they monitors are vertical, it will not.

 

[ecc83]

" Why do you say to have the tweeters on the inside?"
Y'know I don't know! it was always the way with asymetric speaker layouts. There probably is a good acoustic reason (probably to do with diffraction) .

BTW, I don't think those speakers are a pair? I am mentally rotation them and I am sure the layout is the same in both!

Dave.

 

[Steenamaroo]

BTW, I don't think those speakers are a pair? I am mentally rotation them and I am sure the layout is the same in both!

Dave.

Funny you should mention that. I have old wharfedale dovedales with three components, like those dittons.

My speakers are symmetrically opposite to each other, but I've seen 'pairs' on google image that were the same as each other.
Because there was a DIY housing option with plans available at the time, I assumed some people had just made a mistake.

 

[Bip Bop]

BTW, I don't think those speakers are a pair? I am mentally rotation them and I am sure the layout is the same in both!

Dave.

Mmm , I did wonder about that. Heck!!

 

[Lt. Bob]

Those speakers are most likely an IB design and therefore have a tighter, more accurate low end than most cheap ported monitors of today (it is a continuing myth anyway that "hi-fi" speakers are tarted up to sound good. Mssrs KEF, Harbeth, Castle, Rogers, Spendor, Quad and many others of that era would be appalled at the very idea!) .

.

thank you ...... you've said what I almost always pop in and point out in these threads. It's a myth that hi-hi speakers are hyped.
CHEAP ones and crap like Bose are hyped, but quality hi-hi speakers are every bit as flat as any of the monitors we buy except for the most expensive monitors and even then, if we choose "hi-fi" speakers in the same price range they will perform as well.

 

[miroslav]

Yeah....but what are we talking about exactlhy when we say "Hi-Fi"....?

What price range?


If you take a typical home "Hi-Fi" system (not an audiohile $$$$$ system)....the speakers are not that high-end, and likely are not equal in performance to a decent grade studio monitor system (not talking about $200-$300/pair monitors).

 

[Lt. Bob]

If you take a typical home "Hi-Fi" system (not an audiohile $$$$$ system)....the speakers are not that high-end, and likely are not equal in performance to a decent grade studio monitor system (not talking about $200-$300/pair monitors).

first ..... there's no such thing as a typical home hi-fi anymore. Anyone that doesn't care about sound has a Bose Wave radio if that.
Second ..... if you're not talking 200-300 dollar monitors then you're also not talking 200-300 dollar hi-fi speakers either .
If you're talking about 1500-2000 dollar monitors then you're also talking 1500-2000 dollar "hi-fi" speakers (if you're gonna compare) and at that price they are entry level audiophile speakers and they are not hyped.