Recording guitars.

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tranquillant

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HI guys!

I've been recording guitars for my new song trough Guitar Rig 4 and I am just slightly dissappointed with the sound.
Well not the sounds exactly the program produces cool sounding amp simulations I mainly use the orange and marshall
simulations for distortion and vox and fender for cleans and the cleans are fine. I just dont' get the wow factor the the distortion
parts. I record with a semi-hollow Tokai Es and usually the guitar is awesome with distortion. Been playing guitar for 19 years
so I'm no novice in playing or music theory.

Is it impossible to get those big crunchy overdriven guitars without mic'ing actually amps? Because right now I just don't have the possibilities
to bring my amps home and really crank them up and I don't have a lap top which I could take to the place where my band rehearses.

I've been recording two guitar lines panning them about 92% left and right and then taken a reverb for those tracks from my fx bus panning the reverb
to 100 % left and right so I would get slightly larger yet airy guitar sound. Still something is missing. Of course I also EQ'd them and used compression to smooth those rough edges a bit
and make them stand out in the mix. The song has drums, organs bass and guitars.

Any tips on this guys? I would really appreciate.
 
As far as distortion, that's one thing I've noticed is that amp sims usually get pretty poor when you try to push it to more and more distortion. Shoot, I haven't found a software sim that does those REALLY well for stuff like Metal music, but a lot of them can do basic lighter rock stuff easily.

If you're looking for a heavier distortion sound and a REAL amp, the Peavey 6505+ combo tube amp is $600. Not CHEAP by any means, but it sounds really good for that kind of style and even for a lot of rock stuff. Between that and the amp sims, you should be alright for the most part. Personally, I'm a real amp guy, and I'll suggest that you buy at least an amp or two. I know Greg uses both amps and sims, so if he stops by, he'll probably give you much better advice than I can.
 
Thanks for the reply!!

I'm not looking to do metal, and I have two different amps, I have Marshall VS100 head+cabinet and Peavey Classic 212 from 1976. I just can't mic them at my homestudio because It's in an apartment
with people living on top of me.
I mainly do bluesy hard rock/ blues rock and I am not looking to have heavy distortion just slightly overdriven and distorted guitars.
 
Try skipping the EQ and Compressor. Maybe you're crushing the sound/dynamics of the guitar.. Get the sound you want before you record rather than after or you could be fiddling around forever.
 
I didn't compress or EQ'd before I recorded and I'm mainly satisfy'd with the sound characteristics of the two guitars... Only they sound a bit thin.
You know what I mean or am I just blabbering total nonsense :D
 
Haha, maybe you just need to turn up the bass knob on the amp sim?
 
The "air" control in Guitar Rig is gonna be your friend if you're looking for that chunk sound. Nothing is ever going to beat a blaring amp with a mic on it, but Guitar Rig and some of the other quality sim programs comes close if you know to use it. Also, there's no need to compress them. It's probably hurting your sound. Just keep tweaking. Put up a sound clip and maybe someone can guide you better.
 
Greg_L said:
The "air" control in Guitar Rig is gonna be your friend if you're looking for that chunk sound. Nothing is ever going to beat a blaring amp with a mic on it, but Guitar Rig and some of the other quality sim programs comes close if you know to use it. Also, there's no need to compress them. It's probably hurting your sound. Just keep tweaking. Put up a sound clip and maybe someone can guide you better.
Click to expand...

OKay I haven't even noticed this air control thanks for the tip!!!! and I merely use compression as I have acoustic and elctric guitar parts so I hooked all the guitar tracks into a shared FX bus and compress them together to get them to fit in nicely and even out the major volume differences?

EDIT: I'll put up a clip tonight when I get back from work
 
tranquillant said:
OKay I haven't even noticed this air control thanks for the tip!!!! and I merely use compression as I have acoustic and elctric guitar parts so I hooked all the guitar tracks into a shared FX bus and compress them together to get them to fit in nicely and even out the major volume differences?
Click to expand...
Meh, I don't think that's a good idea. I mean, whatever works, but it seems like a bad idea to me. Evening out volume differences is what faders are for. Keep your acoustic and electric tracks separated and MIX them to work together. Compressed acoustic guitars can be good. Compressed overdriven guitars is usually pretty unnecessary and can only do more harm than good when unnecessary.
 
Yeah. Its seems like a compressor on a guitar bus would just make the loudest guitar duck the other tracks when it peaks.
 
Greg_L said:
Compressed overdriven guitars is usually pretty unnecessary and can only do more harm than good when unnecessary.
Click to expand...

^^^This^^^

Like I said earlier. Get a half decent sound that you want first and record. Skip the EQ and Compression. If you get it right before recording you shouldn't need to add EQ\Comp into the chain.

For volume changes, where needed, use automation envelopes. Even for the niggly bits. It's more work but much better results than slapping a compressor on and crushing the audio.

:thumbs up:
 
Thanks!!!

I guess I tried a shortcut there getting them to blend well together via the compressor :facepalm:
 


Heres a rough, unfinished, clip of the song and don't think about the drums etc. just the guitar sounds. it is still missing vocals and few parts soloes and outro
 
The guitar tone is fine to me and great for the genre your recording.

If your like me, I hear the tone in my mind and try and record the tone as my brain hears it. Which rarely happens. Close, but never exact.
 
Muddy T-Bone said:
The guitar tone is fine to me and great for the genre your recording.

If your like me, I hear the tone in my mind and try and record the tone as my brain hears it. Which rarely happens. Close, but never exact.
Click to expand...

Yeah thats the problem with me too I hear the song in my head and how I want it to sound...but I still lack the skills to record it how I hear it hehe =)
 
tranquillant said:


Heres a rough, unfinished, clip of the song and don't think about the drums etc. just the guitar sounds. it is still missing vocals and few parts soloes and outro
Click to expand...

Yeah those guitars sound super muddy to me with a hint of fizz. What settings are you using? I know guitar Rig can do better than that, so it's definitely fixable.
 
Greg_L said:
Yeah those guitars sound super muddy to me with a hint of fizz. What settings are you using? I know guitar Rig can do better than that, so it's definitely fixable.
Click to expand...

on the left channel I got citrus head and cab gain at almost at 3 o'clock bass at 11 o clock treble at 2:30 presence 1 o clock
on the right channel I got lead 800 head and cab bass at 4 mid 6,5 treble 6,5 prsence 4 preamp 2 master 8,25
 
Okay, for one, in my experience with guitar rig, ditch the cabs that come with the heads by default. Go to "components" and pick your own cabs and mics. For example, I always liked the "Jump" or "Lead 800" with the 60's British cab with a tube condenser or a 57 on it. That cab is a fair approximation of a Greenback Marshall cab. Stack cabs like a real life stack and watch how huge the sound gets. The "Jump" is supposed to be a JMP, the "Lead 800" is supposed to be a JCM 800. They do a fairly decent job of simulating classic Marshall tones. The "Citrus" is obviously an Orange sim, and it goes well with the "Citrus" 4x12 or the "Gratifier" (Mesa) 4x12 as they both approximate Vintage 30 cabs. But of course, you can choose whatever you want. Treat the sim heads like real heads. Crank the masters, dial in some mids, and watch the pre amp gain. Choose mics and placement like you would a real cab. Guitar Rig is pretty good in my opinion. Like I said, i know it can kick out better than what you have in that clip. The thing with sims though is they all, somewhere in the frequency range, impart some kind of telltale fizz simply by being purely digital. Do an EQ sweep, find that fizz, and notch it out.
 
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