I need a personnal trainer

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Raymie James

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I am new to this forum, and am in a unique situation. I have been writing music for about 40 years and in all that time, the only computer program that I have ever used is Band in A Box. About six months ago one of my best friends died, and left me his computer. He was also a song writer, and his computer contains 5 music writing programs, as well as Band in A Box. He put a lot of time and money into his work. One of them is Cubase. I guess that you can't teach an old dog new tricks, because I can't make heads or tails out of any of this stuff, although I would give anything to learn.
I am in serious need for someone out there to take some time and walk me through the program. The manual for this thing is like reading Greek, as well as all the other Greek manuals that I was given. If someone would help me navigate these programs, I would be extremely grateful.

Thanx So Much
Raymie
 
Hey Raymie.
Sorry to hear about your friend.

I'm thinking getting advice and help from someone is great, but if the manual is greek to you there's a fundamental problem.
Maybe you could find a glossary of common audio terms online or something, or even just watch some beginner video tutorials to get a hold of the terminology?
 
Pete:

Terminology is not the problem. I can put all of the loops on the program, of which there are over 10,000 and I can make a beat last forever. What I am having a problem with right now is that I can't seem to put together a chord progression. For instance, say that I am writing a piece in the key of C and I need to change to an F Chord, and I have the perfect loop but it is in Eb, what can I do. In BIAB it is a simple click, and in Cubase or Acid Pro, I can't seem to change them. It is almost like I would have to have all of the loops in every key before I could write something that makes sense.
 
Oh, I see.
Not really a productive answer, but why not just stick with BIAB?

While I'm sure cubase is capable of what you're asking, it probably wouldn't be geared towards it.
Something like ableton would be though. It'd be more focussed on loop based music.

I know how to do that stuff in PT but I'm not a cubase user.
I know there are a few on here (good guys), so someone should pop in soon.

I'm Paul, btw. It's my own fault for having a stupid misleading signature. :p
 
Paul:

I can understand that, but I also have Cakewalk, FL Studio, and Acid Pro. They are all probably just as good, do you know anything about those? I could stick with BIAB, but I'm like many others, I want more.
 
Sorry man; I don't really step outside of my Protools comfort zone. :p

I'm sure someone will be along.

In the meantime, what do you want to achieve from using a new/different software suite?
What do you want from it beyond what you're already getting?
Maybe that'll help people make suggestions.
 
Raymie, I'm a former Cakewalk user, but it hasn't been called that for a long time. That-which-was-Cakewalk has been called Sonar for quite awhile (the latest version is Sonar X2). I'm not familiar with FL Studio and, though I know of Acid Pro, I've never used it. From what I recall, it uses pre-written loops for building songs.

I think the fundamental problem here is that Cubase and Cakewalk/Sonar are full-featured programs intended for recording and mixing audio and MIDI, whereas BIAB is something altogether different. I played with BIAB for fun some decades ago -- I don't know what it is now but, at least back then, it was intended for quick-and-dirty accompaniment creation. It was pretty good at that, but I've always done my own orchestration from scratch so haven't had any need for it. The one thing full-featured music programs are not is quick-and-dirty. All of them can transpose MIDI and some can pitch-shift audio (or there are third-party plug-ins are available that can). All of them can work with MIDI or audio loops, but they don't work at all like BIAB -- they don't create music for you and let you manipulate it. You have to create the music yourself.

What might be helpful is if you could give us some idea of your level of musical skill and what it is you're trying to accomplish. There are a whole range of books and tutorials on using Cubase and Sonar but whether these would be helpful really depends on your familiarity with basic digital audio recording, MIDI sequencing and, of course, plain old music theory. Frankly, if all you want to do is build songs in BIAB and elaborate on them a bit, programs like Cubase and Sonar are overkill, like getting a bulldozer to plant a single flower. On the other hand, if you are a musician and what you want to do is write songs and just use BIAB for quick sketches, the full-feature programs might work, and there may be other alternatives, e.g. scoring programs like Finale and Sibelius.
 
The best way that I can explain what I want to do is this. I want to create a piece of music that does not sound like a canned progression. I fully understand music theory. At this point in my life, BIAB is great for basic sketches of a piece, and tells me where I want to go with it. However, it doesn't let me create the piece. I can hear what I want in the song, but I can't make BIAB do it. I have to create it. That's the best I can explain it. I understand how the different programs work, basically, however, my problem right now is that, if I create a piece for instance in the key of C, and want to go to an F, I have the perfect loop but it is in Eb. What do I do now?
I admit that I don't understand all of the functions that the programs will perform, but one has to learn sometime, and I am willing to put in the time to do so, I just need a little help. The programs that I have are Sonar X2, Acid Pro 7.0 Cubase 5, FL Studio 10 and BIAB 2013, and as I said previously, any help I can get will be greatly appreciated.

Raymie
 
raymie - my pat answer for threads like this. get out and go talk to a real human. go to a music store, they probably have classes.
 
Raymie James said:
The best way that I can explain what I want to do is this. I want to create a piece of music that does not sound like a canned progression. I fully understand music theory. At this point in my life, BIAB is great for basic sketches of a piece, and tells me where I want to go with it. However, it doesn't let me create the piece. I can hear what I want in the song, but I can't make BIAB do it. I have to create it. That's the best I can explain it. I understand how the different programs work, basically, however, my problem right now is that, if I create a piece for instance in the key of C, and want to go to an F, I have the perfect loop but it is in Eb. What do I do now?
I admit that I don't understand all of the functions that the programs will perform, but one has to learn sometime, and I am willing to put in the time to do so, I just need a little help. The programs that I have are Sonar X2, Acid Pro 7.0 Cubase 5, FL Studio 10 and BIAB 2013, and as I said previously, any help I can get will be greatly appreciated.

Raymie
Click to expand...

Hey again Raymie.
This all hinges on your meaning of 'create a piece'.

If you're creating a piece from loops and that's where you're happy, I'd stay where you are.

If creating a piece means recording real instruments and maybe having to manipulate the sound to get it right, then step up.
It sounds like you just want a bigger sample library, or a way to transpose your existing loops, and BIAB would cover you.


I'm not trying to talk you down or anything. I just don't wanna recommend convoluted learning curves to achieve what you can already do.
 
Raymie James said:
The best way that I can explain what I want to do is this. I want to create a piece of music that does not sound like a canned progression. I fully understand music theory. At this point in my life, BIAB is great for basic sketches of a piece, and tells me where I want to go with it. However, it doesn't let me create the piece. I can hear what I want in the song, but I can't make BIAB do it. I have to create it. That's the best I can explain it. I understand how the different programs work, basically, however, my problem right now is that, if I create a piece for instance in the key of C, and want to go to an F, I have the perfect loop but it is in Eb. What do I do now?
I admit that I don't understand all of the functions that the programs will perform, but one has to learn sometime, and I am willing to put in the time to do so, I just need a little help. The programs that I have are Sonar X2, Acid Pro 7.0 Cubase 5, FL Studio 10 and BIAB 2013, and as I said previously, any help I can get will be greatly appreciated.

Raymie
Click to expand...
Ah, gotcha.

Okay, a couple of general points, and then one specific one.

I agree with Manslick -- it's easier when someone can explain as you go, and the music store idea is a real good one. If you're lucky and they're not busy, someone might even show you on the spot

Sonar transposes by going to the properties for the MIDI or Softsynth track and just specifying how many semitones you want to raise or lower the track. You can also transpose an individual clip by using Tools.

Audio tracks are more involved and, as far as I know, can't be transposed using only Sonar. I use a program called Melodyne by Celemony. Melodyne, which can work as a standalone, or as a plug-in for most DAWs, will raise and lower pitch by semitones, or in finer increments, without changing the tempo. However, it's not a perfect solution. Though it can handle polyphonic music, the best results will be achieved with a monophonic track.

I'm still not clear what you are trying to do. It sounds like you are trying to import BIAB loops into a DAW and then work with them there. That's not a good methodology. Rather than importing the loops, I'd suggest roughing out the entire song in BIAB, then importing the entire MIDI output into your DAW. Then you can modify individual notes, add music, or use the BIAB tracks as a guide to laying down new music.

The real problem is that BIAB and DAWs like Sonar and Cubase have very different intended purposes. Though most DAWs support loops, they're primarily used as shortcuts so that you don't have to lay out a long track that consists of a consistently repeating pattern; DAWs are designed for composing. BIAB, on the other hand, is a shortcut for creating music; it makes accompaniment choices so that you don't have to.

There's an excellent book on Sonar called Sonar X2 Power! by Sccor R. Garrigus. It will take you, step-by-step, through all of the functions of Sonar. I refer to it when I need to reference obscure functions that I don't normally use. Sonar (and Cubase) are dense programs with a lot of features. You don't have to understand all the functions of the programs in order to work with them effectively, but it sounds like you really need a solid introduction to DAWs, generally, and Sonar (or Cubase) specifically.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.
 
I come from the "audio first" school of DAWs so I'm a bit biased, but if you are talking loops, the one in your list that would be the no brainer to me is Acid. Because it is a Sonic Foundry design, it shouldn't require ever cracking open the manual except for some very specific and rarely used functions.

Those guys really really understood intuitive user interfaces. The only time people seem to have trouble learning the SF stuff is when they are already used to another DAW paradigm and therefore except things to take more steps and tools than the (mostly) single-tool SF interfaces work
 
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