Double Tracking and Managing Effects

  • Thread starter Thread starter XeroTalent
  • Start date Start date
X

XeroTalent

New member
Hey everyone,

I'm looking for some help to use the best strategy to double up tracks and manage the effects to minimize CPU usage.

I want to double up a guitar track. The guitar track is using an amp sim (FreeAmp3), TAL Delay, and some EQ.

When I click "Duplicate Track" to double it up, it also copies all the associated FX in the new track.

The problem I'm running into is this: because I'm using a lot of delay, and the song has 18 other tracks with FX as well, the song stops/starts because the CPU is overloaded when I try to play it back.

So what I'm looking for is a strategy to minimize the FX usage. Since I'm doubling up a guitar track with the exact same effect, is there a way I can just set up the FX's once, and then route the guitar tracks to that FX bus?

And if so, can I still pan each track L/R respectively? I tried to create a folder for the amp, and then have the two guitar tracks children of the amp folder, but it only outputs to the L channel or center for some reason.

Any help to manage these duplicated FX to minimize CPU usage would be greatly appreciated :)

Thanks!
 
Hello mr talent,, (didn't like to write the other bit!)
you can save a lot of cpu by freezing the track once you got the fx's right, you can change things later if required by un-freezing!

Also if you're just duplicating a track & panning the 2 L&R you're just bringing it back to mono!, (it should be 2 seperate takes)to give a real stereo effect! :)

to learn about freezing & much much more, look at page 105, section 5.19 in the FREE pdf manual!
HERE http://www.cockos.com/reaper/userguide.php
 
jiff 41 said:
Hello mr talent,, (didn't like to write the other bit!)
you can save a lot of cpu by freezing the track once you got the fx's right, you can change things later if required by un-freezing!

Also if you're just duplicating a track & panning the 2 L&R you're just bringing it back to mono!, (it should be 2 seperate takes)to give a real stereo effect! :)

to learn about freezing & much much more, look at page 105, section 5.19 in the FREE pdf manual!
HERE REAPER | User Guide
Click to expand...

Thank you!!! I never noticed the Freeze feature before, looking into that now!

As for doubling up on the guitar track, doing a simple "Duplicate track" won't really achieve what I'm looking for? I was thinking I could duplicate it and then nudge it 1ms or something to get the same effect, but you're suggesting I just record a whole separate take?

And I would just copy the FX from the first guitar track on to my new one? There's no way I can share the same FX with two different tracks since they'll be the same?

Many thanks for your reply :)
 
Delaying a duplicate track by milliseconds is an oft-used trick that sounds like crap. Take the suggestion, and record another take. It's the subtle differences in playing that work best.
'Freezing' tracks - another name for stem rendering? That's what I do when I've added a ton of CPU-intensive VSTi's.
 
mjbphotos said:
Delaying a duplicate track by milliseconds is an oft-used trick that sounds like crap. Take the suggestion, and record another take. It's the subtle differences in playing that work best.
'Freezing' tracks - another name for stem rendering? That's what I do when I've added a ton of CPU-intensive VSTi's.
Click to expand...

OK, I'll go ahead and record another take.

And I would just copy the FX from the first guitar track on to my new one? There's no way I can share the same FX with two different tracks since they'll be the same?

Cheers!
 
If you put the tracks in a folder, you can put fix on that & the one fx applies to all in the folder
Is that what you're after?
 
For things like delays and reverbs, if you're using the same effect on multiple tracks then put the effect on an effects bus and use an aux send from each channel to apply the effect. This type of effect is called a parallel effect because it adds to what's already there. Even with Reaper's unusual terminology and features you can still do this standard routing.

Normally effects like eq and compression should be inserted on the track in question. They are called series effects and they alter the sound, replacing the input signal with an altered one at the output. If you want to share those kinds of effects you need to use a submix group bus. Reaper's version of that is folders and there's a lot you can do with them. Note that compression of a submix sounds different than compression of each track individually.

Things get tricky when you're using an effects bus for reverb or delay at the same time as using submix groups.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
For things like delays and reverbs, if you're using the same effect on multiple tracks then put the effect on an effects bus and use an aux send from each channel to apply the effect. This type of effect is called a parallel effect because it adds to what's already there. Even with Reaper's unusual terminology and features you can still do this standard routing.
Click to expand...

This sounds more like what I want to do, since it seems the delay is causing all the CPU hogging.

What about an amp sim? If I have 2 guitar tracks that use the exact same amp sim with the same parameters, should I use that in parallel (send both tracks to an FX bus) or in serial (on each track, even though they're the exact same)?

Thanks!
 
XeroTalent said:
This sounds more like what I want to do, since it seems the delay is causing all the CPU hogging.

What about an amp sim? If I have 2 guitar tracks that use the exact same amp sim with the same parameters, should I use that in parallel (send both tracks to an FX bus) or in serial (on each track, even though they're the exact same)?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

You probably need to put the amp sim on each one separately. Some of what a sim does is alter the dynamics, and doing that to both as a group will sound different from applying it to each. Beside, you may decide later that you want to make the two sims different.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
You probably need to put the amp sim on each one separately. Some of what a sim does is alter the dynamics, and doing that to both as a group will sound different from applying it to each. Beside, you may decide later that you want to make the two sims different.
Click to expand...

So keep the amp sims on each track, and route the delay/verb to an FX bus.... that should hopefully clear up enough CPU so that I can actually listen through the song without it crapping out on me!

Cheers!
 
XeroTalent said:
So keep the amp sims on each track, and route the delay/verb to an FX bus.... that should hopefully clear up enough CPU so that I can actually listen through the song without it crapping out on me!

Cheers!
Click to expand...

If you've been putting reverb directly in the channel inserts then doing it as I suggested should free up some CPU. Unfortunately doing the opposite with sims takes up more CPU, but it's really the "right" way to do it.
 
But why not put a sim on each gtr track freeze it, then send it to verb or ?, savings all round!
 
jiff 41 said:
But why not put a sim on each gtr track freeze it, then send it to verb or ?, savings all round!
Click to expand...

Only if you have no other choice, I'd say - change your mind about the sim and back you go to do it again. I'd be using the send/bus for reverb as a starting point and seeing what that does to CPU.

And definitely track twice. Duplicating and nudging won't get you what you want, I suspect.
 
jiff 41 said:
But why not put a sim on each gtr track freeze it, then send it to verb or ?, savings all round!
Click to expand...

That does seem to be the benefit of freezing a track. I haven't gotten into that particular feature of Reaper.
 
This is a little more work, but what I have done is render the track with the effect, then add it as another track with effect. I disable the send and FX in the track (in case I need to change it later) and move on. As others have stated send multiple tracks to a bus, but that leaves less room to adjust for each track. Soo, there are a few options. A little more work, but it can reduce your load, which is the objective.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
That does seem to be the benefit of freezing a track. I haven't gotten into that particular feature of Reaper.
Click to expand...

yeh if you change your mind & don't like the sound,,, unfreeze it, change it to ?, refreeze it!= simples :eatpopcorn:

then send it to the verb bus,, i track on an old crappy dell lappy,& i gotta save as much cpu as poss!, so any suggestions that are better are very welcome!! :thumbs up:
 
The freeze/unfreeze is exactly what I'm looking for - yet another feature I didn't understand properly.

Thanks everyone!
 
2 gtrs one amp.webp
Here's a little something I found the other day, along the lines of what you need(& me!) I haven't tried it yet! :)
but it might just work, I think this is what you asked about originally??.
 
jiff 41 said:
View attachment 80565
Here's a little something I found the other day, along the lines of what you need(& me!) I haven't tried it yet! :)
but it might just work, I think this is what you asked about originally??.
Click to expand...

Except that sounds different from running them through separate sims.
 
OK...first an important lesson in CPU usage. applying separate reverb types to different tracks would be a waste of power and a useless gesture. So the same thing happens when you have effects duplicated. That's not the right way to set up. First remove all the effects after noting the settings and saving them under your own personal names. Then duplicate the tracks. Offset them very slightly and play it back. Always listen to your mixes without effects before deciding what effects to apply. Then apply the effects the mix needs. As for the amp sim, try this. Duplicate the guitar track without sim. Then set up the amp sim on one track. Set your tracks up to record the amp sim on a separate track. Then the sim takes up no CPU power. Now you can treat the other guitar track the way you wish. It sounds like you don't have enough RAM for one thing. Most of us don't have this problem since we have about 8-16 Gigs of RAM. Good luck, Rod Norman
XeroTalent said:
Hey everyone,

I'm looking for some help to use the best strategy to double up tracks and manage the effects to minimize CPU usage.

I want to double up a guitar track. The guitar track is using an amp sim (FreeAmp3), TAL Delay, and some EQ.

When I click "Duplicate Track" to double it up, it also copies all the associated FX in the new track.

The problem I'm running into is this: because I'm using a lot of delay, and the song has 18 other tracks with FX as well, the song stops/starts because the CPU is overloaded when I try to play it back.

So what I'm looking for is a strategy to minimize the FX usage. Since I'm doubling up a guitar track with the exact same effect, is there a way I can just set up the FX's once, and then route the guitar tracks to that FX bus?

And if so, can I still pan each track L/R respectively? I tried to create a folder for the amp, and then have the two guitar tracks children of the amp folder, but it only outputs to the L channel or center for some reason.

Any help to manage these duplicated FX to minimize CPU usage would be greatly appreciated :)

Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top