next step in trying to achive greater clarity

[twangbuck]

Ok, so I recorded a couple of demos in a buddy's studio. He's running Cubase LE 5 on a windows 7 machine (64 bit) with a zoom recorder for an interface. He uses a roland digital drum set, sometimes an acoustic drum set, and he has a couple of decent mics to record vocals and guitar, but I couldn't tell you what they are (he also has other mics to record his acoustic drums, but again I don't know what they are).
I was immediately impressed with the clarity and overall sound quality he got on his recordings. Sure they aren't "professional studio quality," nor was I expecting them to be, but they were the best, clearest sounding demos I'd ever been a part of.
He did not go nuts with effects either. Little bit of reverb and compression, but not much else on anything.
I then started to think how I could get a set up that was similar but that could fit within my much tighter budget.
I got a pc w/windows 7, but 32 bit. I installed 4 gb of ram, which I know isn't much but it's holding up well w/minimal drop outs and on one song I have probably 17 tracks, many with various fx/eq's going (though again, pretty subtle on the fx).
I have a focusrite scarlet 2i4 for an interface, a shure sm58 for the guitars and vocals, and I borrowed a $100 shure condenser mic from a friend of mine to record an acoustic guitar. I'm recording my electric guitar w an sm58 (same guitars, amp and pedals I used at his place).
I'm running the bass direct, like I did at my buddy's house.
I’m using Audacity to convert to mp3.
All in all, when I'm listening to the tracks pre-mix down on my headphones or through my home stereo with my Infinity speakers, it sounds very nice. When I mix it down to an mp3, however, the clarity just isn't there. I mean, it doesn't sound "muddy" and I can differentiate all the instruments, it just all in all sounds very lo-fi if you know what I mean. That real crystal clear clarity my buddy got just isn’t there.
Also, I’m not even comparing my stuff to his fully mastered demos. Even compared to his unmastered mp3’s that he burned for me, the clarity in my set up just isnt’ there like it was with his.
So, what’s the first thing I should do to gain something more in terms of clarity? I’m thinking it’s either upgrade the interface or get better mics. Obviously both are needs, but which is the first step? I’m considering as a first step selling the scarlett, getting a similar zoom as my buddy has, and then once the holidays come around and my wife needs an idea for a present to get me, I go on ebay and see what kind of good diaphragm condenser mics are out there for vocals, and ask her to make that my Christmas present. Then I spend a few bucks on a used sm57 to record electrics, then maybe down the road get a good condenser to record acoustic guitars.
Thoughts?

 

[Jay Tee 4303]

I highly recommend Mike Senior's "Mixing Secrets" as the comprehensive, fundamental, and essential guide at the beginning of any search for audio excellence.

 

[Ethan Winer]

I’m thinking it’s either upgrade the interface or get better mics.

I promise you there's nothing wrong with your Scarlett interface. A better microphone would be a good move. But you said the clarity is lost only after converting to MP3, so that's a clue. And also proof that the gear itself is fine. I agree with Jay that what you need most is probably guidance and some more experience.

--Ethan

 

[mjbphotos]

Why are you mixing down to MP3? MP3 takes your data and chops a large chunk of it away to make the files smaller. Mix down to WAV. Then convert to MP3 - note there are different resolution settings for MP3s, too, you may be converting to the smallest file size/lowest resolution.

 

[godchuanz]

If you're converting WAV to 320kbps, or even 256kbps, MP3, you must have really good ears if you hear that the process lost something. I used to think that MP3 sound quality suck, until I compared a 256kbps MP3 to WAV, level-matched. It's really tough to discern any difference in quality.

And this explains the difference that I was hearing before: I was playing the MP3 file using the standard in-built music player in the computer, and comparing it to what I heard in the DAW (ASIO). This may also be the problem you are facing. Remember, what you hear in the DAW software (usually ASIO) is louder than the MP3 file that's playing through Window's sound mixer. And we all know that louder sounds better.

Please don't sell your perfectly good Scarlett - it's almost definitely not the problem. An LDC and SM57 would be a good start for any recording engineer, but it may not address your "clarity" problem. Maybe you can also get better speakers/room to mix with.

Lastly, any sound clips to share?

 

[JimmyS1969]

If you're converting WAV to 320kbps, or even 256kbps, MP3, you must have really good ears if you hear that the process lost something. I used to think that MP3 sound quality suck, until I compared a 256kbps MP3 to WAV, level-matched. It's really tough to discern any difference in quality.

And this explains the difference that I was hearing before: I was playing the MP3 file using the standard in-built music player in the computer, and comparing it to what I heard in the DAW (ASIO). This may also be the problem you are facing. Remember, what you hear in the DAW software (usually ASIO) is louder than the MP3 file that's playing through Window's sound mixer. And we all know that louder sounds better.

Please don't sell your perfectly good Scarlett - it's almost definitely not the problem. An LDC and SM57 would be a good start for any recording engineer, but it may not address your "clarity" problem. Maybe you can also get better speakers/room to mix with.

Lastly, any sound clips to share?

Obviously, an audio file that is cut down in file size, will have detrimental results to the audio. Whether audible to any listener, is more a subject of ones listening environment, and/or ones ability to hear such differences.

ASIO is not 'louder' than MP3. The player that plays the MP3, would be the only culprit here. Output level of a file, is constant right? Or maybe I have just lost my mind.

 

[godchuanz]

Hi jimmys69,

You're right, MP3 is definitely a compromise, and I agree. I just simply don't have good enough ears to differentiate anything 256kbps and above. Or maybe I need a new environment

Anyway, I'm not saying ASIO is louder than MP3. I'm saying playing sound through ASIO is typically louder than playing through the default sound mixer in Windows. In fact, ASIO is not even a file type, so we can't compare it to MP3.

If you have a player that allows you to change the output plugin, and have an ASIO plugin for that player, try it: play the same MP3/WAV file through Windows sound mixer, and try it in ASIO. The ASIO one is most likely louder

So, when we compare "the sound that comes out when I double-click the MP3 file" vs "the sound I hear in my DAW", we gotta make sure that both are playing through the same audio output stream, or else the one playing through ASIO would have an "unfair advantage".

 

[JimmyS1969]

One thing I will point out here, is when comparing the 'default sound mixer in Windows' to the ASIO device, there is already a conflict of what is being used. If you are using the 'default sound mixer' in Windows, are you not using the internal soundcard? I have disabled my internal soundcard via BIOS setting, so I have no clue here.

I am just not understanding why anyone would use the built in soundcard, if they have a better ASIO device at hand. Oh, wait, I suppose Skype and other things might make that difficult...

OK, I myself, have completely different PC's/setup for those tasks. I never thought about using the two together. Hmm.. I suppose I need to listen with others ears now huh?

 

[godchuanz]

If you are using the 'default sound mixer' in Windows, are you not using the internal soundcard? I have disabled my internal soundcard via BIOS setting, so I have no clue here.

No, it's not the internal sound card. That sound mixer is a default that Windows will slap on all audio devices. Your sound card may be ASIO-capable, but Windows will still play sounds through its default audio device, e.g. whenever your computer starts, the welcome sound that you hear. When you perform an illegal operation, that warning tone that you hear. In fact, even when you play an MP3 file on Soundcloud, it defaults to play through the Windows sound mixer.