GearFest Mixing Contest

[fHumble fHingaz]

Indeed it has! I'll have to go back and re-automate everything, but that's shouldn't take long. I enjoy my kick sound quite a bit more at this point

Can you just change your routing? Maybe create another buss, run everything but the kick into it & run the kick into another buss? That way, you could turn "everything else" down proportionately to the kick & keep your automation intact.

 

[Guitargodgt]

What is the tempo for this song?

It varies from 102-110 at times, it's not steady.

I will say it's way more steady than most bands, but the song naturally speeds up and slows down in a good way.

 

[F13Bubba]

Can you just change your routing? Maybe create another buss, run everything but the kick into it & run the kick into another buss? That way, you could turn "everything else" down proportionately to the kick & keep your automation intact.

But that would be too easy I got everything back where I needed it. Before I was bucking it in the verses, and letting come back up in the chorus. I'm doing the opposite, which was a lot less work, next time, I'll have to do it your way I think I'm nearly finished with this, a few more tweaks, and then I leave it a few days to clear my head of it.

 

[Guitargodgt]

Read the thread, didn't listen to all the mixes as I'm at work.

My frustrations:

Kick: I kind of wish they used a different mic, but I understand the reality of this recording having watched the videos.

Snare: The bleed is crazy. I'm just gonna roll with it, but there is more than I'm used to. Further compression brings out the high hats like crazy.

OH: IMO it wasn't wide enough, but again having watched the videos I get why.

Bass: After hearing both the DI and the amp, I don't really know why they bothered with the DI. I don't know if I'm even going to be including it. Would have rather had a room mic or a guitar dub instead.

Guitar: Really bummed they didn't ditch the DI in favor of just one overdub here. There is so little to occupy the stereo field that I feel like another guitar track would have helped. That said, the guitar tone they went with sounds really good IMO.

Vocals: Like everyone else has said it's a very dynamic performance. I don't really have anything to complain about here as I thought the vocals was the best aspect of this recording.

Anyhow, so far I have spent 30 mins just mapping out the tempo to this song. I like using subtle delays and like them to be in time with the song as they don't stand out as much that way.

I'll be doing my mix entirely in the box though.

I also have to say I'm totally out of my element with this one. Most of the stuff I do is loud, squashed and needs to be incredibly tight to the grid or it sounds mush. Not used to having so much space to work with. Everything I do normally do fights for space in the mix.

More frustrations with the rules:

I get that we are not allowed to add extra instruments and respect that, but the line really is blurry. There are mix techniques that really border on crossing the line. Copy pasting tracks, perhabs reamping vocals inside another room (I'm not doing that), or even auto tuning in some vocal harmonies (thought about it to thicken up the chorus). Or auto tuning the main vocals (also not doing this).

It's really hard to know what goes to far. I would have prefered the rules be more definative. It would have been much easier going with "you can only work with the content provided and the arrangement must stay the same."

That way we would know that copying tracks, auto tuning harmonies, or triggering kicks is ok as long as you use the content provided. I'm just saying.

 

[F13Bubba]

Here's my latest mix:



I bumped up the gain 3db on the Overheads at the end to bring out the toms, but muted all of the snare htis, as I thought it was oto much snare. I then cut a lot of the high end on the snare to try and minimize the bleed form the hat, and I need to put those snare hits back in. I did some extensive eq'ing on the kick to get it right where I wanted it. I also vacillated between dropping the fake double I had of the guitar and going mono, or keeping it. In the end, I decided to keep the stereo, but duped it with a mono track going only for the solo to give it a little more kick and some tonal variety.

I'm pretty happy with it, though I'm not sure if I want to keep the clapping at the end. It's definitely been a challenge, but it's pulled the best mixing I've ever done out of me. I've learned a lot today, through trial and error, research, and some great advice from people here. Now, to walk away from it for a few days to give me brain time to rest

 

[fHumble fHingaz]

Kick: I kind of wish they used a different mic, but I understand the reality of this recording having watched the videos.

I found the trick to getting the most out of the kick is gating - like most live kicks, it needs a fairly hefty dose of both reductive (high pass subs & dip low-mids) & additive (lows & high mids) equalization

Snare: The bleed is crazy. I'm just gonna roll with it, but there is more than I'm used to. Further compression brings out the high hats like crazy.

This is tricky - I found my traditional gating approach didn't work at all - I ended up letting it bleed & treating the snare as both the snare & hihat mic - a fair bit of shelving up high was required, & going easy on the compression, so that it doesn't make the hats go crazy. Parallel processing also helped - using transient designer to bring out the snap.

OH: IMO it wasn't wide enough, but again having watched the videos I get why.

The thing with the OH is that the left & right channels are not time-aligned, so the stereo image is a bit screwy. If you can delay the right channel (I think -from memory) by about 27ms, the snare will centralize nicely.

Bass: After hearing both the DI and the amp, I don't really know why they bothered with the DI. I don't know if I'm even going to be including it. Would have rather had a room mic or a guitar dub instead.

Guitar: Really bummed they didn't ditch the DI in favor of just one overdub here. There is so little to occupy the stereo field that I feel like another guitar track would have helped. That said, the guitar tone they went with sounds really good IMO.

Agreed - this really takes some ingenuity - there's a real opportunity to either stuff this up badly & tastelessly, or conversely, to come up with something stunningly revolutionary.

Vocals: Like everyone else has said it's a very dynamic performance. I don't really have anything to complain about here as I thought the vocals was the best aspect of this recording.

Yup - the vocals are awesome, but they need a lot of control - multiple compressors & automation.

Anyhow, so far I have spent 30 mins just mapping out the tempo to this song. I like using subtle delays and like them to be in time with the song as they don't stand out as much that way.

Now that's attention to detail!

I'll be doing my mix entirely in the box though.

Way to go! The way of the future (present)!

I also have to say I'm totally out of my element with this one. Most of the stuff I do is loud, squashed and needs to be incredibly tight to the grid or it sounds mush. Not used to having so much space to work with. Everything I do normally do fights for space in the mix.

Nothing wrong with that - It's great to go outside your comfort zone sometimes - I did a competition mix in December where it was a crazy synth pop thing that was totally out of character with what I normally do, but it turned out great - probably the best mix I've ever done!

More frustrations with the rules:

I get that we are not allowed to add extra instruments and respect that, but the line really is blurry. There are mix techniques that really border on crossing the line. Copy pasting tracks, perhabs reamping vocals inside another room (I'm not doing that), or even auto tuning in some vocal harmonies (thought about it to thicken up the chorus). Or auto tuning the main vocals (also not doing this).

It's really hard to know what goes to far. I would have prefered the rules be more definative. It would have been much easier going with "you can only work with the content provided and the arrangement must stay the same."

That way we would know that copying tracks, auto tuning harmonies, or triggering kicks is ok as long as you use the content provided. I'm just saying.

The way I read the rules, they have deliberately made it quite open for 3 reasons:
1. To see how creative we can be within the limitations of the provided tracks
2. To reveal whether we are good at gauging "tastefulness" as it applies to a particular genre/style. (for example: someone may use drum samples very tastefully so that they enhance the track, another may use in a very obvious & tasteless manner, detracting from the overall mix & drawing undue attention to themselves.
3. To provide some variation from mix to mix... Can you imagine judging over 1000 mixes that are pretty much identical apart from minor eq changes? That would be an absolutely mind-numbing prospect!

 

[fHumble fHingaz]

Here's my latest mix:



I bumped up the gain 3db on the Overheads at the end to bring out the toms, but muted all of the snare htis, as I thought it was oto much snare. I then cut a lot of the high end on the snare to try and minimize the bleed form the hat, and I need to put those snare hits back in. I did some extensive eq'ing on the kick to get it right where I wanted it. I also vacillated between dropping the fake double I had of the guitar and going mono, or keeping it. In the end, I decided to keep the stereo, but duped it with a mono track going only for the solo to give it a little more kick and some tonal variety.

I'm pretty happy with it, though I'm not sure if I want to keep the clapping at the end. It's definitely been a challenge, but it's pulled the best mixing I've ever done out of me. I've learned a lot today, through trial and error, research, and some great advice from people here. Now, to walk away from it for a few days to give me brain time to rest

Cool! Your mix just keeps getting better & better!

 

[Needhia]

Hi Guys !

This is my first version of the song "Oh Baby"
Do not hesitate to tell me what you think about it !

Cheers

Quentin

 

[Guitargodgt]

I found the trick to getting the most out of the kick is gating - like most live kicks, it needs a fairly hefty dose of both reductive (high pass subs & dip low-mids) & additive (lows & high mids) equalization

I carved up that kick drum quite a bit, but I opted not to gate anything. Ride the bleed baby. haha

Anyhow I'm still in the phase of getting balance. Will be working on it more today. I may risk it and do something with the chorus with the vocals or something.

 

[ouzo77]

The way I read the rules, they have deliberately made it quite open for 3 reasons:
1. To see how creative we can be within the limitations of the provided tracks
2. To reveal whether we are good at gauging "tastefulness" as it applies to a particular genre/style. (for example: someone may use drum samples very tastefully so that they enhance the track, another may use in a very obvious & tasteless manner, detracting from the overall mix & drawing undue attention to themselves.
3. To provide some variation from mix to mix... Can you imagine judging over 1000 mixes that are pretty much identical apart from minor eq changes? That would be an absolutely mind-numbing prospect!

In the instructions PDF they say:
The rule is that the song’s arrangement must remain the same (no additional harmonica or kazoo tracks please). If you think it absolutely necessary, advanced mixing techniques such as "drum triggering" are allowed but should remain as transparent as possible. This contest is about mixing not about producing.


I See it like this:
They don't want additional Instruments or anything that changes the Arrangement of the Song. Only the Tracks provided. What you do with those Tracks sonically is up to you. You can Double or quadrouble them, put effects on them and do whatever it Takes to make the Song Sound as Good as possible.

Drum triggering or replacing is Common practice in mixing nowadays. Especially in Rock and Metal Music. It is part of getting the Sound you're after and basically Not so different from using eqs or compressors.
When it Sounds Natural and fits the Song and Overall Sound then it is totally okay.

Just my view.
I did use Kick and snare Samples because i found it "absolutely necessary" to achieve the Sound i wanted. But i didn't just pick a Sample And left it like that. I had to work those too like any other Track to make them fit.


BTW, Sorry for all the uppercasing. I'm writing this on my phone which is Set to German.

 

[fHumble fHingaz]

In the instructions PDF they say:
The rule is that the song’s arrangement must remain the same (no additional harmonica or kazoo tracks please). If you think it absolutely necessary, advanced mixing techniques such as "drum triggering" are allowed but should remain as transparent as possible. This contest is about mixing not about producing.


I See it like this:
They don't want additional Instruments or anything that changes the Arrangement of the Song. Only the Tracks provided. What you do with those Tracks sonically is up to you. You can Double or quadrouble them, put effects on them and do whatever it Takes to make the Song Sound as Good as possible.

Drum triggering or replacing is Common practice in mixing nowadays. Especially in Rock and Metal Music. It is part of getting the Sound you're after and basically Not so different from using eqs or compressors.
When it Sounds Natural and fits the Song and Overall Sound then it is totally okay.

Just my view.
I did use Kick and snare Samples because i found it "absolutely necessary" to achieve the Sound i wanted. But i didn't just pick a Sample And left it like that. I had to work those too like any other Track to make them fit.


BTW, Sorry for all the uppercasing. I'm writing this on my phone which is Set to German.

Yeah, I think we see things the same way, then.

 

[thefyn]

You might want to trim a little low end off the kick. You've got a lot of sub-bass happening there. Also could do with trimming a little around 200hz out of the kick would clean the low end up too.

To link your mix, you have to join the Gearfest contest "Group" & then "add" your mix to that group - (There is a tab under you mix called "Add to Group).

I added a room verb to it and some other tweaks to make it rounder. I wanted to get a live room sound on the bass drum rather than a boxy/mixing desk/direct sound.

I didn't add a sub kick or any replacement drums etc.

Thanks for the advice on the groups!

 

[Jamolir]

Liza Colby

Hi Guys!

My first post here, let me know what u think..

Cheers!

/Marcus

 

[Needhia]

@ Jamolir

Nice Mix !!
Maybe the kick is to high (for me)

 

[Jamolir]

@ Jamolir

Nice Mix !!
Maybe the kick is to high (for me)

Hey!

Thankz, I like the kick right now.. But I´ve mixed this song on my headphones. So I can be wrong..

Going to the studio tomorrow for a listen on my Focals.

Cheers
/M

 

[Anthony Alves]

Hi G. Thanks for reading my post. I mixed my song on the iPad only specifically to prove your point. You don't need big gear to do this right but you do need experience when doing a fantastic mix with minimal gear. A novice will likely not know what she/he are looking for or what tool to use to fix the problem. So yes your right you don't need tons of gear but you will likely need tons of experience to take your simple mix to the top 16. Cheers and I enjoyed the challenge and the many great responses I've had to my mix done in Auria on the iPad4.

 

[StudioMan22]

Hi all,
Been meaning to register and get involved, and just now getting to it. Been reading some of the comments here, and just wondering about something, concerning drum replacements.

I just wonder how the drummer himself would feel about that. I mean there is nothing like spending some $2K or more on good equipment, only to have an engineer or producer decide without even asking you if it is ok to completely wipe out your sounds, in favor of samples. I have always wondered about that. I guess some guys might not like it, while others would be more in favor of whatever helps the song most. But did anyone contact the drummer himself before making that decision?

Cause if that's the case, then why not just replace the bass completely, or the guitar, or even her vocal? I mean where does this end? Seems like that's a slippery slope. And whose fault is it if the engineer/producer cannot get good enough sounds such that they would NEED to make replacements in the first place? What, they going to blame it on the drummer for not having his kit tuned up enough? Then why didn't they take care of that before they started recording?

I dunno. But I did listen to quite a few of the other mixes and it seems very few really worked on the toms, which seem to get lost in a lot of places with no close mics. They add a particular punch on the last chorus, if you can find a way to bring them out. Good catch on the poster above who caught the slight delay in the overhead tracks. One of the first things I did was to check phase and alignment, split out the stereo OH tracks to mono, and make that adjustment.

I opted to not make any drum or other replacements, and just work with the tracks themselves. I did pull a couple of tricks to get her vocal more in tune without resorting to an autotuner. And I still haven't seen anyone here comment on the nasty high mid, fuzzy, almost distorted portion of her vocal track which drove me nuts. I had to work real hard at that to get rid of most of it- and perhaps the vocal on my mix might sound a bit dark because of it. I compromised. Sounds like it was going through a not so great tube mic preamp or something.

But anyways, all in all it was fun to do, just wish I was better set up at the moment with better gear to do it. My mix was done with just a stock install of Reaper and one plugin. I do believe someone with high end gear and a room would have a distinct advantage, if they knew what they were doing- and chances are- they would. Rerouting tracks through high gear can yield more bandwidth by creating more harmonic overtones, providing bigger sounding tracks, for starters, not to mention better being able to shape and judge the low end. So I have no doubt with the killer gear up for grabs someone like that will probably win it or place highly.

Regardless, some really good mixes in there, so thanks all for those.

 

[CJLOTTI3]

I am registered for contest, soundcloud loggged in. Get to page and cannot for the life of me find a

post yer mixx button on this contest page!!!!!!!!!!!!!


411 ????

 

[ouzo77]

I just wonder how the drummer himself would feel about that. I mean there is nothing like spending some $2K or more on good equipment, only to have an engineer or producer decide without even asking you if it is ok to completely wipe out your sounds, in favor of samples. I have always wondered about that. I guess some guys might not like it, while others would be more in favor of whatever helps the song most. But did anyone contact the drummer himself before making that decision?

Cause if that's the case, then why not just replace the bass completely, or the guitar, or even her vocal? I mean where does this end? Seems like that's a slippery slope. And whose fault is it if the engineer/producer cannot get good enough sounds such that they would NEED to make replacements in the first place? What, they going to blame it on the drummer for not having his kit tuned up enough? Then why didn't they take care of that before they started recording?
.

hey studioman

I wonder what the other members would say if the Song sounded like crap because his Drums weren't recorded properly. The Job of a Mixer is to get the best Sound possible of the Material. Regardless of Egos.
I guess the Drummer of the Band wouldnt mind, because its Not gonna be their official Record or anything.
And drum replacement/ enhancement is Not the Same as Recording New Bass or Guitar Tracks. You don't change his Performance. You just tweak the Sound.
And i am a Drummer myself.

I Wonder how Liza would feel that you tune her perfectly sung vocals. I dont See the Need to at all.

Just my thoughts. ;-)

 

[fHumble fHingaz]

Cause if that's the case, then why not just replace the bass completely, or the guitar, or even her vocal? I mean where does this end? Seems like that's a slippery slope. And whose fault is it if the engineer/producer cannot get good enough sounds such that they would NEED to make replacements in the first place? What, they going to blame it on the drummer for not having his kit tuned up enough? Then why didn't they take care of that before they started recording?

You're right, it is a slippery slope. The digital world allows us as mixers to tamper infinitely with the source, which can really open a Pandora's box of tastelessness...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but your questions seem to imply that relatively recent innovations like drum replacement/augmentation and vocal tuning somehow inherently "contaminate" a mix if they are used...

In studying the history of audio, it seems that this is the objection that has faced just about every innovation that has come along. Right from close-micing techniques, through using equalisation to multi-track recording - all have, at one time or another been accused of interfering with the "authenticity" and "integrity" of music. Why, I read recently where George Massenburg faced much resistance when he first introduced parametric equalisation - from established engineers who felt that the very use of such was somehow a concession to not getting the sound right "at the source"....

Now, we might laugh those viewpoints now, but is this resistance to modern digital tools not just a case of history repeating itself just a little bit?

To illustrate why it's difficult to support the "authenticity" argument, let's take (for example) the "modern" drum recording method of close mics + overhead (established for a good 40+ years now). Honestly, when you stand in the room with a drummer playing acoustically, does it sound anything like the sounds we have heard on record for the past 40 years? Why not? Because the engineer has gated, equalised and compressed those close mics and overheads within an inch of their lives to get that sound... Yet, we somehow have come to accept that sound as "authentic". In fact, the sound stopped being truly authentic the moment it entered the microphones... But the reason we do it is because it sounds great - Does the drummer care that it doesn't sound exactly like his kit in the room? Hell no! He loves it because it pounds, it sounds exciting, and it sounds explosive.

Is it any more "authentic" at a live concert? Nope -mics>mixing desk>processing>amplification>speakers.

The fact is, an artist usually wants to be presented in the most flattering light possible - and it is the mix engineer's job to use the tools he/she has on hand to accomplish that goal. They want a finished product they can listen to over and over thousands of times without cringing...

That said, I'm not denying that modern digital mix tools afford the potential to produce the most horrible, tasteless and artificial monstrosities, but let's face it - that has always been the case. An engineer dismissing the use of an audio tool on the basis that it has been used incorrectly in the past is somewhat akin to a chef dismissing the use of a knives because they have often been used to murder people.

In the end, it all comes down to taste - Technical skills are something that can be taught to almost anyone. Beyond that, mixing is a complex series of highly subjective artistic decisions, and in this regard, it seems Fab has given us all just enough rope to either tie up and present the package beautifully - or to hang ourselves!