M
RecordingMaster
A Sarcastic Statement
Ok now you've gone and pissed off Sir Paul...
G
Greg_L
Banned
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
He was! He was pointing out John to Mark Champman.
fat_fleet
Swollen Member
Too bad Paul wasn't with him that night in NYC.
Paul was actually killed in a car crash in 1966.
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
Right ... Paul's stand in double was there pointing out John to Mark Champman.
fat_fleet
Swollen Member
That was John's stand in double that got shot...the same black guy that played Ace in Kiss Meets The Phantom of the Park.
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moresound
Loud Sun Studios
Am so confused.
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Greg_L
Banned
He was! He was pointing out John to Mark Champman.
lolz.....
G
Greg_L
Banned
Best movie ever.
N
newfoundkenny
New member
I tracked with an engineer once that did that so that replacing the drums would be easier. I'm not sure what the motive was for MUSE but that is what an engineer I worked with once did. Just thought I'd share
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
My mate that I've played music with since '82 would often do it. I never liked the sound, personally. It made the snare seriously dead and made the drums problematic for me to mix in the old 'drum on one track' days.
Speaking personally, there are lots of ways to utilize sound on different instruments and sometimes, I'll see or hear something, think 'that's interesting' and give it a whirl. It'll either work or it won't. For me making music is fun and that element is part of it.
Loads of drummers have tried it. Back in the 50s, 60s and 70s, necessity and boredom were the mothers of invention and many different things developed that way in recording. That said, I couldn't tell you by listening to a song whether the drums were dampened or not ! On a slightly related note, I remember having this 'conversation' {that's what these threads are in a way} a couple of years back with Greg and the day after, I was watching Ringo give an interview and he explained why he used tea towels on his drums. I meant to relay what he said but I think the thread got closed as it turned a bit 'testy'. Some of it was just part of the quest for new sounds to help convey some of the LSD driven music that the band were making during and after '66. New experiences that were being shared required a new and different sonic palette.
One could apply that maxim to quite a few artists. I have met many people whom I think worship artists or genres that they think they're meant to but never found that to be the case with the Beatles. On the contrary, I'd say I know [of] far more people who seem to knock them "because they think they're supposed to". Frankly, both ways are daft, to me.
All, interestingly except John Lennon who had a very middle class upbringing. Of the Stones, Jagger and Jones were middle class but Richards, Wyman and Watts were definitely considered working {lower} class in the British class system. Art school was where you went because you'd not done well in your school exams but weren't into becoming an apprentice plumber or electrician. Society certainly never took it seriously. But for me, this is one of the things that really marks 60s British rock and pop ~ it was possibly the first time people from the different classes wilfully and freely mixed with each other. Tons of the bands {the Who, Beatles, Stones, Yardbirds etc} were composed of middle and working {lower} class people and the managers were often upper class {Who, Kinks, Beatles, Yardbirds.....}. British rock was far more a middle class 'revolution' than it was a working {lower} class one. And punk, when it came along, was just as middle class.
The Beatles were definitely the punks of their time ~ before they started making records. Easilly forgotten is the fact that after, as Keith Richards put it, 'the initial wham had gone out of rock'n'roll', groups of kids up and down the country patterned their music, stage clothes and moves on the sedate Shadows. The Beatles hated Cliff and the Shadows and remained loud, wild, smoking, swearing, eating and drinking on stage leather clad casanovas and pill poppers. Brian Epstein neatened them up {a move Lennon and Harrison never liked} but in those days, there was no rock scene. It was the showbiz scene. But the Beatles music was sufficiently powerful and interesting to not only appeal across the board, it blew open doors that had been previously closed and it's a fact that the every group that came after the Beatles {except the Hollies and the Dave Clark 5} were in one way or another profoundly influenced by them. I have not come across one 60s artist that wasn't.
That's a much repeated myth, pushed primarilly by Peter Brown in "The love you save" to show McCartneys egomanic bossiness. It makes little sense because the Beats recorded on 4 track right until near the end of the White album and routinely, guitars, piano and drums went on the same track. That's partly why guys like Andy Johns think engineers in those days were much better ¬> because they had to balance and mix as they tracked because there was going to be bouncing {or as they called them then, reduction mixes}. But it throws up {at least} two points ¬>firstly, it's no secret Paul plays drums on a few tracks on the White album {two after Ringo quit the band} and "The ballad of John & Yoko". Studio records are very clear on this, interviews are also very clear on this. It's always treated like some deep conspiracy theory !
It's never been hidden ! Secondly, there are numerous instances where the Beatles swapped instruments. McCartney plays lead guitar on a number of songs, George and John play bass and lead guitar. George played harmonica, John played brass etc, etc, etc. That band really were an embarrasment of riches.
John never played the drums
He, George and Paul all played drums on "Back in the USSR". I think it's Ken Scott who says they all played it together on different parts of the kit as Paul's solo effort just didn't cut the mustard.
witzendoz
Senior Member
G
Greg_L
Banned
My mate that I've played music with since '82 would often do it. I never liked the sound, personally. It made the snare seriously dead and made the drums problematic for me to mix in the old 'drum on one track' days. Speaking personally, there are lots of ways to utilize sound on different instruments and sometimes, I'll see or hear something, think 'that's interesting' and give it a whirl. It'll either work or it won't. For me making music is fun and that element is part of it. Loads of drummers have tried it. Back in the 50s, 60s and 70s, necessity and boredom were the mothers of invention and many different things developed that way in recording. That said, I couldn't tell you by listening to a song whether the drums were dampened or not ! On a slightly related note, I remember having this 'conversation' {that's what these threads are in a way} a couple of years back with Greg and the day after, I was watching Ringo give an interview and he explained why he used tea towels on his drums. I meant to relay what he said but I think the thread got closed as it turned a bit 'testy'. Some of it was just part of the quest for new sounds to help convey some of the LSD driven music that the band were making during and after '66. New experiences that were being shared required a new and different sonic palette. One could apply that maxim to quite a few artists. I have met many people whom I think worship artists or genres that they think they're meant to but never found that to be the case with the Beatles. On the contrary, I'd say I know [of] far more people who seem to knock them "because they think they're supposed to". Frankly, both ways are daft, to me. All, interestingly except John Lennon who had a very middle class upbringing. Of the Stones, Jagger and Jones were middle class but Richards, Wyman and Watts were definitely considered working {lower} class in the British class system. Art school was where you went because you'd not done well in your school exams but weren't into becoming an apprentice plumber or electrician. Society certainly never took it seriously. But for me, this is one of the things that really marks 60s British rock and pop ~ it was possibly the first time people from the different classes wilfully and freely mixed with each other. Tons of the bands {the Who, Beatles, Stones, Yardbirds etc} were composed of middle and working {lower} class people and the managers were often upper class {Who, Kinks, Beatles, Yardbirds.....}. British rock was far more a middle class 'revolution' than it was a working {lower} class one. And punk, when it came along, was just as middle class. The Beatles were definitely the punks of their time ~ before they started making records. Easilly forgotten is the fact that after, as Keith Richards put it, 'the initial wham had gone out of rock'n'roll', groups of kids up and down the country patterned their music, stage clothes and moves on the sedate Shadows. The Beatles hated Cliff and the Shadows and remained loud, wild, smoking, swearing, eating and drinking on stage leather clad casanovas and pill poppers. Brian Epstein neatened them up {a move Lennon and Harrison never liked} but in those days, there was no rock scene. It was the showbiz scene. But the Beatles music was sufficiently powerful and interesting to not only appeal across the board, it blew open doors that had been previously closed and it's a fact that the every group that came after the Beatles {except the Hollies and the Dave Clark 5} were in one way or another profoundly influenced by them. I have not come across one 60s artist that wasn't. That's a much repeated myth, pushed primarilly by Peter Brown in "The love you save" to show McCartneys egomanic bossiness. It makes little sense because the Beats recorded on 4 track right until near the end of the White album and routinely, guitars, piano and drums went on the same track. That's partly why guys like Andy Johns think engineers in those days were much better ¬> because they had to balance and mix as they tracked because there was going to be bouncing {or as they called them then, reduction mixes}. But it throws up {at least} two points ¬>firstly, it's no secret Paul plays drums on a few tracks on the White album {two after Ringo quit the band} and "The ballad of John & Yoko". Studio records are very clear on this, interviews are also very clear on this. It's always treated like some deep conspiracy theory !
lol....
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
The other morning as I was driving, I was listening to "Fox on the run" by Manfred Mann when out of the blue, this fox darted across the road. Seriously !
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Today As I was driving around, I was listening to "The Subhuman" by
Honestly !
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moresound
Loud Sun Studios
How where you able to get John to pose for that picture?
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mtn. moonman
New member
Punk only lived for a few years after the name was applied. Kris Kristofferson said, "If it sounds like country than it is." Today, if it sounds like punk...it surely isn't. No different than battle reenactment, tributes, and all things community theater. Edgy or dangerous? Aren't played out ideas tiresome?
R
Rod Norman
New member
Great comments all. The concept of dampening dates from the 70's when the engineer tried to have complete control over each drum hit and each drum sound. They began close miking the drums and that allowed them to turn down the inputs so they didn't pick up any other sounds and therefore the eq and effects wouldn't affect any other sound. Today, some of that concept is returning as a way to avoid the expense of high priced compressors and individual mics. With two overheads and a BD mic, the towels make the drums sound tight and punchy if they are done right. (I recommend thin towels or the pillowcase mentioned earlier. I once had round bed sheet covers with elastic made to practice in my bedroom at home.) Here's the key point: The final sound of the music is vital. For some that means a sweet blooming boom. For others it means a tight punchy thud. Do whatever it takes to get the sound you want. The final product is all that counts. I've even records share hits separately and dropped them in on the snare track by hand for rock and pop sounds. Whatever works.
Rod Norman
Rod Norman
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
My function is to entertain.....for no pay !
The power of blackmail.
^^^^^^^c'est ça^^^^^^^