Sampling rates

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OK, nother stupid Noob question!...

I will be recording with a Zoom R24. I see posts describing recording with similar multi-trackers, where people are recommeded to set the recorder tp 96KHz sampling rate and 24 Bit for maximum quality

But other sources (including the R24 manual itself) state that if the recording is going to be put onto a CD at some point, the recording settings should be 44Khz , and 16 Bit (i.e. same as a CD)

Which is right? In a sense I can see no point in recording at a higher quality setting than the end media?
 
Neither...

If you're recording for a CD, the general advice around here for most people (and there are exceptions....) is that you record at 44.1kHz and 24 bit depth. There are definite advantages in recording at 24 vs 16 bit depth, but for most home recorders, whether you record at 44.1, 48, 88.2 or 96 is the least of their issues... (although generally you'd pick 44.1 or 88.2 not 48 or 96).

I'm sure someone else will come along and disagree with me, however.... I'm not an expert in the field, just replaying the general perceived wisdom from hanging around here forever...
 
Long story short -- 44.1kHz will record up to 22.050kHz just as accurately as 96kHz will.

If you have a source that can reach above that, a mic that can pick it up, processing that can react to it, a monitoring chain that can reproduce it and you're main clients are dogs and bats (that can actually hear it), there you go. Otherwise, if you can't make an award-winning, audiophile celebrated recording at 44.1kHz, the problem isn't your sampling rate. And as a "freak of nature" who at least at one time could hear 22kHz, which made me a sort of "lab rat" for my fascinated audiologist, there is nothing pleasant about that sound anyway. Consider yourself lucky if you cut off at a more "typical" 17-18kHz.

Long story short, 44.1kHz exceeds even exceptional human capabilities. So that moves us on to word length -- I *am* a fan of 24-bit for several reasons up to and including that same reason as before -- It exceeds human capabilities.

That said - Most recordings these days aren't ever going to come close to using that sort of dynamic range -- But again, it exceeds the capabilities of all your gear also. You aren't going to find recording gear that has a >120dB usable dynamic range. Not mics, not preamps, not speakers, amplifiers, compressors, etc.

THAT said, with a "theoretical" 144dB dynamic range (even if most gear won't spec out at more than 120), at least you're capturing everything that gear is doing, along with a frequency response that exceeds human potential. And self-noise aside, recording in 16 bit can add dither noise -- On one track, not a big deal. On 20 tracks, that can be a big deal (although again, you're talking less noise than a decent tape machine, so it's somewhat insignificant in most cases).

Now on the "But... but..." side -- There are still many who suggest higher sample rates because they think it's picking everything up more accurately. (A) It's not true in the first place. (B) I have had so many recordings in here at high sample rates -- Thank goodness most not over 96k, but some up to 384 (and those are usually the ones that wouldn't matter if they were recorded to a broken cassette deck). A *LOT* of these recordings actually have - what's the Yiddish word - Schmutz? A bunch of garbage above 24kHz or so. Just a lot of noise and crap.

"How did you hear it, John?" Good question -- Play it back at 1/2 speed.

Now, I don't keep track of it, but there were occasions that I asked what sort of converters were being used. Let's just say that no one ever said Lavry, Crane Song, RME, Weiss, Burl or Prism. But there were a lot of fairly common "budget friendly" names in there. What all that crap is/was, I have no idea. But those same converters seemed fine at normal rates. And again, this wasn't audible schmutz - But if wasn't part of the original signal and it shouldn't have been there. I'd call that a defect that was only present when using 2x rates.

So if you *do* want to record at high rates for whatever reason, I'd be looking for some "nice" converters. That said - You'll probably like those converters so much at normal rates that you won't want to bother.

[EDIT] Don't think I didn't notice that I started this post with "Long story short" and then said it again not a couple paragraphs later...
 
A friend sent me this link last week and it's quite a nice read (albeit overly geeky);

The Science of Sample Rates (When Higher Is Better

I'm still more than happy recording at 16bit, 44.1kHz and, as Massive said (well, paraphrasing), if you can't get good recordings with that there's something else wrong in the chain
 
Neither...

If you're recording for a CD, the general advice around here for most people (and there are exceptions....) is that you record at 44.1kHz and 24 bit depth. There are definite advantages in recording at 24 vs 16 bit depth, but for most home recorders, whether you record at 44.1, 48, 88.2 or 96 is the least of their issues... (although generally you'd pick 44.1 or 88.2 not 48 or 96).

I'm sure someone else will come along and disagree with me, however.... I'm not an expert in the field, just replaying the general perceived wisdom from hanging around here forever...

I agree - definitely record 24-bit and, if it's for CD, I would use 44.1kHz or 88.2kHz.

The advantage of using a higher sampling frequency is that you can use gentle filters instead of a "brick wall" filter at 20kHz.

So I always record at 24/88.2 (or 24/96).

John
 
The advantage of using a higher sampling frequency is that you can use gentle filters instead of a "brick wall" filter at 20kHz.

John, with current over-sampling AD converters, is this such an issue?

As it relates to over-sampling AD, my understanding is that the analog anti-aliasing filter can be a simple (even first order) filter, with corner frequency placed well outside the audible range, in the region of low hundred-kHz. Any further filtering occurs in the digital realm, in the AD chip.

Paul
 
Believe it or not, but not everyone who gets into recording is on a forum.

Cheers :)
 
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