Hi everybody! Have some questions.

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simon96

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Hi everyone, first of all I need to apologise in advance for the grammatical errors which i may make, since I'm italian.

Then I'd like to ask some questions to the more experienced members of the forum:
- I'm just getting started in home recording, I have a 21' iMac (which comes provided with Garage Band) and i bought M-Audio's Fast Track Pro which includes PRO TOOLS SE and I was wondering how much the software is important in home recording: I don't want to spend hundreds of euros to buy a software which would have - for me - lots of useless functionalities, so do you think Garage Band and Pro Tools SE are enough to start? I want to make each step very calmly and be sure before spending money;

- Since I've started recording my first tracks, I was wondering which is the path to follow: which instruments do I have to record first and why?

Thank you for your attention, have a nice day :)
 
Hello Simon and welcome.
Don't worry about grammar, your english is FAR better than my Italian! (in fact it is far better than many of those who post here with English as a first language!)

I know not of macs nor Pro Tools SE but I have had quite a lot of experience with the FTT pro and can tell you it will serve you well until the bug bites deeper into your pocket!

Might be helpful to know what instruments you have/play? The order is pretty unimportant I would think. Some folk chug some chord to a click track, some make a basic drum track....The great thing about computer recording is that you can change just about anything anytime and keep hours of stuff on file, equivalent to many 1000s of EEs of tape and of course FAR more accessable.

And no, the software does not matter as far as sound goes, you certainly do not have to spend a fortune (or even anything!). Do give Cockos Reaper a go, free till you feel too guilty then about E60?
BTW, (and I guess this also applies to macs?) do use a spare hard drive for music only storage and as things get more "serious" back that up.

Rock on,
Dave.
 
I'd say for the order of tracks, I like to get some kind of scratch guitar track down with a click track or sequenced drums until I can get real drums printed.

For recording software, or which DAW you want to use, a lot of it is personal preference and what features the DAW has and how easy it is to use. Having Garage Band and Protools is fine to give you a start. I also really like Reaper which is free to try and very inexpensive if that's what you want to use. You don't have to spend anything to record tracks and there are free demos of other ones if you really want to find something that you like. Logic is a well respected platform with advanced features for Mac.

I don't have a Mac so I don't use Garage Band but I have a friend who really likes it. From what I've seen it doesn't have a lot of advanced features and options but it's very easy to use. Many of the effects are presets. I'm not sure if it can handle external effects or plugins. The metering isn't very good.

My friend doesn't care about that stuff because he doesn't want to spend a lot of time learning about audio and how to use new software. He wants to play music and press the red button to record jam sessions and make demos. Garage Band is fine for that if that's all you want to do. Other software like Protools or Reaper will give you more control in mixing if you want to get more serious about it.

Set goals for yourself and have fun.
 
Trust me- Pro Tools has all the useless functionality you will need for a very long time. It sounds like all you need for right now is a few carefully selected microphones and the peripherals (cables/leads, mic stands, furniture, and the hardest thing- a good room that you have the authority to modify). You will also need a monitor chain, to hear the music. Headphones, possible headphone distribution for others, and monitor speakers for post-production- mixing, etc. The price of good monitor speakers will cause you pain. Others here know more about room modification and monitors than I do. I'm pretty good with mics, though. So what do you intend to record? Right now, you have a good entry level interface and adequate software. You need to be thinking about where the sound is coming from, not where it's going. If you have something worth recording, you can record it on almost anything. Prioritize the signal chain like this- A good performance, of a good song (or other sound), in a good room, on a good instrument, captured by the right mic (not the most expensive mic), in the right place. *Then*, the preamp, the A-D converter, the software, the hardware. You're OK from the preamp forward (for now). Deal with the beginning of the signal chain now, or you'll be dealing with the end of it for years, trying to fix the problems caused by the front end. Good luck. We'll be there for you. And don't worry, your English is rather good.
 
I said I "knew" the pro and Richard has just mentioned mics and preamps.

Well the pro has pretty clean pres but very gain shy. Most dynamic mics will be a non starter for quiet vocals or acoustic guitar but an SM57/58 will be fine on guitar cabs and if you have good lungs.

If you can only afford one mic at the moment and you need to record quiet stuff, go for a pencil style capacitor (condenser) mic. If cabs and belting it out is your thing, SM57.
Dave.
 
Thats right...its a good starter (even better) with the pro tools and garage band...i dont have imac but my friend has it n he makes cool music with it. What else he uses is a midi keyboard controller for midi tracks, mic (SM57) for vocal n even guitar amp...pro tools is good, learn more about it u'll be in benefit my friend.
 
Thank you all for your availability, I wish a merry Christmas!

@ecc83
What is FTT pro? Sorry but i'm kinda new in the field! ^^"

I play guitar (i have 2 electric guitars and two acoustic, but only one of them can be connected to the amp (I don't know the adjective, sorry ahah), but since i come from a family in which almost everyone plays I also have a bass a keyboard which can be connected to the soundcard via midi.

I already have an external HDD, since it has 1TB of space I'll use half of it for my music stuff, thanks for the advice!

@Richard Monroe
Unfortunately I don't think my room could be modified a lot, what do you mean exactly?
I don't think I can afford right a now a pair of pricy monitors but I've already got the headphones: do you think buying not very expensive monitors would be a waste of money or it would simply be better to have pricy ones in order to have more professional results? Right now, I just want to learn and have fun in this whole new world i'm getting into, so I don't feel the necessity to have professional equipment..

What do you mean by "front end" (of the signal, i guess)?

As for the mic, do you think i should go for a dynamic or condenser one? Which are the main differences between them?



Thank you all again for all the replies, have a nice day :)
 
That's right- the "front end" of the signal chain, where the music begins. Regarding room modification, it means controlling sound bouncing off of hard surfaces, especially parallel ones. Ask that question on the studio building and display forum, and you will find lots of pictures. The important part is not to kill the room, but to soften it so it simply sounds better.
As far as dynamic vs. condenser/capacitor mics, they are the yin and yang of recording, like Fender and Gibson. The dynamics are cool, because really good ones don't cost nearly as much as really good condensers. The downside is that dynamics produce a weaker signal, so they require the gain on the preamp to be set very high. When you turn cheap preamps up very high, most of them make a lot of noise. Given that the preamps in the Fast Track are fairly cheap,and don't produce a lot of clean gain, for your purposes, with your equipment, I would start with a condenser mic. I am a big fan of the discontinued AKG C2000B. There are still plenty of them left around. A mid-priced mic, you can find used ones cheap, and because it's made in the EU (in Austria), you won't get killed by import taxes as badly as a mic made in the USA or Australia. That mic is good for vocals, acoustic and electric guitars, and many, many, other things. Two of them is better, because they make a great pair for stereo recording, One of the most versatile mics I know of.
 
Just my OP simon you seem to be headed in the right direction and only want to enhance your recording for right now. Aside from the Mic SM57 that ecc8 so greatly suggested and the AKGC2000B that Richard so greatly suggested (where are those damn things??) which are both great mic's. Also AKG has alot of condenser mic's in the $150-500 price range simon. You have an interface with the fast track - Solid, You have a Mac - Solid, You have a entry level of Pro Tools - Solid. And you know how play your instruments - Solid, thats always the hardest part lol.

Since you are just starting off I would stick with what you got and start off with pro tools se and learn all you can. I thinks its more much intuitive than Garage Band and it will teach you the basics operations of Pro Tools before you graduate to LE & HD. (sure you can find videos and info on learning more detail of Pro Tools). Again since your starting off and being cautious learn what you got first. If your concentration is on just recording and the art of recoding and listening through headphones then I dont think there would be no need for pre amps, monitors, converters ext. (Not taking anything away form the suggestion of the items from the previous post they are all a must have if your looking to take the next step.)

So what direction are you looking to go in simon once you have a great mic and start recording do you have any decisions to start mixing your recordings like for commercial listening or to put together a nice demo tape for friends or record companies in the future whats your overall goal wants you start recording? And what kind of budget are we looking at how much are you willing to spend on some good equip?
 
Thank you all for the answers, I'm getting the idea of what I'm going to do thanks to you!

Since my budget isn't very big, what do you think would be better to buy first? A microphone or a good pair of monitors? Honestly, I think that for now monitors are not very important for me since I can use headphones whereas having a mic would help me getting an idea about how to record in the right way, but reading lots of topics on the net it seems that monitors are the most important thing in home recording..

Anyway, some cheap (from 50 to 200 euros) microphones which would be good for me? :)
 
simon96 said:
Thank you all for the answers, I'm getting the idea of what I'm going to do thanks to you!

Since my budget isn't very big, what do you think would be better to buy first? A microphone or a good pair of monitors? Honestly, I think that for now monitors are not very important for me since I can use headphones whereas having a mic would help me getting an idea about how to record in the right way, but reading lots of topics on the net it seems that monitors are the most important thing in home recording..

Anyway, some cheap (from 50 to 200 euros) microphones which would be good for me? :)
Click to expand...

Just a personal view (and cursed with a very small room!) but I think a small diaphragm capacitor mic is the most versatile choice. Looking in Thomanns. In your budget...
Rode NT5-2
AKG Perception 170 (got 2, like 'em)
Audio Technica AT2031
SEelectronics SE 1A
I would avoid the real cheapies but folks do speak well of Samson? Don't forget a cable, XLR-XLR. Tip. buy 2 3mtrs ones if you can even for one mic, you can plug together for 6mtrs, run another mic if the opportunity arises (somebody ALWAYS has an old Shure kicking about!) and you can NEVER have enough, spare cables.
A stand is vital. Do not think you can balance the mic on a coffee table. Another tip! For home recording don't buy a full sized tripod mic stand. Look thru Thomann or similar and find a 1/2 sized boom jobby. I have one with a heavy base and it only has about an A5 footprint, helps stop this old fool tripping over.

Now: Monitors. Well yes, you can do without for a while. What you really cannot do on headphones is mix(for speakers!) but it will probably be a while until you are bothered about that. However, do try your recordings out on other equipments, hi fi rigs, cars, boom boxes and see how the balance stacks up against commercial stuff of a similar genre.
In any event start saving now for monitors (and room treatment!) because you really cannot get anything much good under 1000 euros a pair and 5 times that would not be considered at all silly.

Can't see my one footer but this looks ok. Looks small but is fine if you are seated.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_ms2002.htm

Dave.
 
I agree that you need at least one mic before you worry about monitors. And- entry level monitors start around $500, Sorry, but I don't know the current exchange rate for Euros. Cheap mics- Like I said, find a used AKG C2000B. It will serve you well. If you can't, look for an AKG Perception 120. Then look for a used AKG D770 (also discontinued). If you can't find one of those, look for a new AKG D5. You can buy both of those mics new on your budget. Then you'll have a dynamic and a condenser, and you can start learning to use the basic tools of recording. Best of luck. We'll be there for you.
 
Richard Monroe said:
I agree that you need at least one mic before you worry about monitors. And- entry level monitors start around $500, Sorry, but I don't know the current exchange rate for Euros. Cheap mics- Like I said, find a used AKG C2000B. It will serve you well. If you can't, look for an AKG Perception 120. Then look for a used AKG D770 (also discontinued). If you can't find one of those, look for a new AKG D5. You can buy both of those mics new on your budget. Then you'll have a dynamic and a condenser, and you can start learning to use the basic tools of recording. Best of luck. We'll be there for you.
Click to expand...

Hi Richard. Not arguing! Great respect. Son records a lot of acoustic guitar and we found the big jobs get in the way! (Sontronics STC-2). In fact his prefered mic is now the SM57 but it needs a bloody good pre amp for finger picked acoustic git!

I was a bit OTT with monitor prices (tho' we DO get shafted compared to you colonials you know!). I was very suprised to see the new version of my Tannoy 5As listed at under £100 each. But then, sweet as the 5" Tannoys are, if he wants low and loud he will have to pay a good deal more.

Felicitations of the season.

Dave.
 
There are a few options to start with. Other people gave good suggestions. An SM57 would be a good mic to start out with and you can use them for just about anything with decent results until you can grow your mic collection. Also very useful for live performance and they hold their resale value.

Because the SM57 is not very sensitive (means that it puts out signal at a low level, or it's not very loud) means that you will have to be very close to it for quieter signals. Condenser mics are louder.

Also when you record, the signal doesn't have to be too loud! A big waveform that fills the whole screen is too loud. NO red clip lights flashing is good.

No matter what mic you start with, you're probably going to find that small changes in where you place the mic for recording will make big changes in the sound. Part of it is room acoustics. Also learn about polar pattern response (cardioid, figure 8, omni) and proximity effect. If using a cardioid mic (unidirectional) means that being closer to the mic has more bass. This is proximity effect. If sound is going straight into the mic it will pick up high frequencies better. If sound is going into the mic at an angle (off axis response) it takes high frequencies away.
 
Ok, so if I'm going to use the microphone to record mostly acoustic and electric guitars I should go for a condenser mic, right? Now I'm not home, but as soon as I come back there I will start looking seriously at the microphones even though I have already looked for them on the net and they seem to be perfectly on what I need (and can afford ahah) right now, so thanks a lot!

@ecc83
Unfortunately, my knowledge of the language didn't allow me to understand what you said about the mic stand.. could you link me a photo of what it should be? I'm sorry >.<
 
simon96 said:
Ok, so if I'm going to use the microphone to record mostly acoustic and electric guitars I should go for a condenser mic, right? Now I'm not home, but as soon as I come back there I will start looking seriously at the microphones even though I have already looked for them on the net and they seem to be perfectly on what I need (and can afford ahah) right now, so thanks a lot!

@ecc83
Unfortunately, my knowledge of the language didn't allow me to understand what you said about the mic stand.. could you link me a photo of what it should be? I'm sorry >.<
Click to expand...

I did! Millenium MS-2002 Mic Stand - Thomann UK Cyberstore
 
Now I understood what you meant, thank you very much!
What do you think it would be the best idea to place it in order to get a good sound? I mean, i should put it in front of the windows? in front of the wardrobe? I don't know where to start!
 
" in front of the wardrobe? "

"Out of the mouths"!!!! I suppose you were joking but yes!
Open the wardrobe and stand the mic in front of the clothes. Hang some heavy coats better duvets over the doors and hard surfaces.

You also want some absorbent material behind you because the rear of a cardiod mic will be perhaps 20dB less sensitive than the front so reverberant sound coming over your shoulder will get in. Ideally a duvet some 2x2mtrs suspended behind you will kill a lot of this "verb". How you realize the "skyhooks" I leave with you!

Just try all and everything, there are no bad ideas just bad sounds!

Dave.
 
I'll try everything as soon as I have a mic!
What about recording the guitar directly into the soundcard? Both GarageBand and Pro Tools have lots of amp simulators..
Do you think it would still be better to record using the mic even though my room is a normal room with all the sound problems it has?
 
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