Duet vs Mixer & Preamp

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fastshadow

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Hey guys,

For the past couple of hours I have been trying to make sense of a few things. I would like to do some recordings for youtube.
My main enquiries are:

Should I get a mixer and decent pre amp or get an Apogee Duet and somehow finding a way to route it through. Has anyone had any experience with a Quartet? I need 4 inputs if im honest with you.

Could someone also explain the outputs? If I wanted to plug in a pair of studio monitors into the mixer/quartet how would you do that. In the Duet it seems easy enough. What are the other outputs for. I see its says 4INx8OUT but i only see 6 outputs.

Thanks so much if you could help!
 
fastshadow said:
Hey guys,

For the past couple of hours I have been trying to make sense of a few things. I would like to do some recordings for youtube.
My main enquiries are:

Should I get a mixer and decent pre amp or get an Apogee Duet and somehow finding a way to route it through. Has anyone had any experience with a Quartet? I need 4 inputs if im honest with you.

Could someone also explain the outputs? If I wanted to plug in a pair of studio monitors into the mixer/quartet how would you do that. In the Duet it seems easy enough. What are the other outputs for. I see its says 4INx8OUT but i only see 6 outputs.

Thanks so much if you could help!
Click to expand...

Budget? Any existing gear?
 
wheelema said:
Budget? Any existing gear?
Click to expand...

Under $300 dollars but I am willing to go a little over. No gear right now apart from a SM58 and a Audio Interface hooked up via USB.
If possible I would also like to be able to record each input on multiple tracks.

Would something similar to this work?
PHONIC Helix Board 12 Firewire Mixing Console

It seems to be a mix between an Audio Interface and Mixer.
 
Last edited:
fastshadow said:
Under $300 dollars but I am willing to go a little over. No gear right now apart from a SM58 and a Audio Interface hooked up via USB.
If possible I would also like to be able to record each input on multiple tracks.

Would something similar to this work?
PHONIC Helix Board 12 Firewire Mixing Console

It seems to be a mix between an Audio Interface and Mixer.
Click to expand...

Rather it's a mixer with A/D/A conversion built in, similar to a Mackie Onyx. Note that it only has four preamps. What are you going to be recording?
 
I've had occasion to take apart Phonic mixers to repair them for friends. Inside the construction quality is appalling--one of them was even dangerous with uninsulated mains voltage in the power supply only millimeters away from the top panel. I'd avoid Phonic like the plague.
 
Hmm thanks for the input Bobbsy. I doubt I'm gonna get any thing from Phonic then.

wheelma; I want to record some vocals and two guitars. Sometimes I want to record a piano using RCA which requires 2 inputs (stereo). The 4 inputs are the minimum just for flexibility and ease. I could use 2 inputs and just record the piano, then the vocals, then the guitar but I find that very tedious.

I only need 4 preamps for my inputs. If I had the money right now I would love to go for a PreSonus Fire Studio Project or an Apogee Ensemble and learn from that but I am just starting out with little money.
So what is the difference between a normal mixer and a mixer with a/d/a conversion. I assume it means the latter can be connected into a PC. How do these compare then a Duet. The Duet is out of my budget but if it is better to get a Duet then I can stretch.
 
Bit confused here Fastshadow?
You say you neded four inputs but mention the Duet which, as its name implies, is a two input device. It is also mac only and whilst that might not seem a problem at first thought, the ability to use any handy computer is an important one to me.

If two mic/line/instr' inputs and two line only inputs will do ya I suggest (yes, you guessed it folks!) the NI Komplete Audio 6 (you get MIDI i/o and S/PDIF as well).

All the usb mixers you see (bar about 3 and they are expensive) only record a stereo mixdown and at 16bits only as well. Many of them also have noisy usb monitoring returns and high latency and none, AFAIK have MIDI and digital i/o.

Dave.
 
You may want to look into this...

Four mic pres! Reputable brand! $190 from B&H!!! Just click on the image.
 
wheelema said:
You may want to look into this...

Four mic pres! Reputable brand! $190 from B&H!!! Just click on the image.
Click to expand...

Ah! The EIE. Almost sank without trace that one.
I was very interested in one over a year ago but could get no hard information from Akai. They dragged their feet so long I bought the Ka6 and very glad I did. There have been some disturbing reports of poor latency and the drivers not being up to scratch.

Given the great concept and apparent facilities the AI should have taken over the World. Not happened and one has to wonder why? The fact that the link shows a retail of $190 but the Pro is £200 over here cannot have helped.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Ah! The EIE. Almost sank without trace that one.
I was very interested in one over a year ago but could get no hard information from Akai. They dragged their feet so long I bought the Ka6 and very glad I did. There have been some disturbing reports of poor latency and the drivers not being up to scratch.

Given the great concept and apparent facilities the AI should have taken over the World. Not happened and one has to wonder why? The fact that the link shows a retail of $190 but the Pro is £200 over here cannot have helped.

Dave.
Click to expand...

I had never heard of it before today. The Komplete Audio 6 looks sweet and the price point is attractive but for the life of me I don't understand why so many manufacturers only put pres on two inputs!

What do you think of Zoom?

 
@eec83

If the quality of the Duet is better then some of the other stuff then I am willing to give up 2 inputs until I can get some better equipment. I use a Mac btw so I do have access to Firewire if there is anything else you want to recommend.
What is S/PDIF used for may I ask? Is there any benefit of me having it on a mixer.

@wheelma

I have this at my local music store but it cost £200 which is the same price for the NI. (I put my budget in US dollars as it may have been a bit easier for some you guys to help me) Not sure if it will be worth it...
Also where would I plug monitors into that? Shouldn't there be a L/R TRS or XLR or RCA somewhere?

@eec83 Im loving the look of that Native Instrument and it looks perfect for my needs. Will I need a separate pre-amp though?
 
"If the quality of the Duet is better then some of the other stuff then I am willing to give up 2 inputs until I can get some better equipment. I use a Mac btw so I do have access to Firewire if there is anything else you want to recommend.
What is S/PDIF used for may I ask? Is there any benefit of me having it on a mixer."

The Duet is recognised as a very high quality interface but I doubt that you would ever have the quality of support equipment, monitors, room, or sound sources to tell it from the Ka6 which has in fact gained a very good name for audio quality.

S/PDIF is a digital audio connection system, not that important but can be useful since many of the better synths have a digital out as do many high end mic pres' (fitted as standard, Audient Mico, or as an option) Then there is one AI at least that can work "stand alone" as a mic pre and digital converter, the M-Audio Fast track pro (you have to put 9volts up its jaxy). One of those and a $50 mixer and you have got yourself 6 mic tracks!

Dave.
 
fastshadow said:
So are you saying that I have to use the Fast Track Pro as a preamp? Or I should get a Fast Track pro as it already has a preamp in it.
Uhm, newbie question, how would I connect the mixer to the interface.
Click to expand...

Sorry Shads' that was just an example and caused needless confusion.

My point was that 2 mic inputs will get you going but in the future you could buy a modest mixer (or even an expensive UNmodest one!) and feed that into the line inputs 3 and 4 using two TRS jack leads for a balanced transfer....The Pro? Well you might come across a second hand one cheap!

Dave.
 
Ah okay, I was thinking of doing that but I wasn't sure if the all the inputs on the mixer would work.
I think that I will get the KompleteAudio6 but it doesn't say anywhere if it has built in pre-amps so I'll pick up a £50 pre amp or something. Sound good too you?

Thanks for all the help guys!
Stay frosty
 
A while back I followed a topic over in the Audition user forums on the Adobe site and that was also bemoaning the fact that Akai had stopped upgrading drivers for the EIE--and there were problems with the existing ones.
 
fastshadow said:
Ah okay, I was thinking of doing that but I wasn't sure if the all the inputs on the mixer would work.
I think that I will get the KompleteAudio6 but it doesn't say anywhere if it has built in pre-amps so I'll pick up a £50 pre amp or something. Sound good too you?

Thanks for all the help guys!
Stay frosty
Click to expand...

The Ka6 DOES have pre amps! Two of them. They are extremely clean and quiet (I could get pikky and ask for 6-8dB of gain? ). With the gains maxed out I can record an acoustic guitar, gentle picking, with an SM57 (why is another story!) and the limit for noise is my room at about -70dBFS* so you just need the interface to kick off with. You can have a mic in ch1, a guitar straight into ch2 and a drum machine/synth should you have one in lines 3 and 4 and record the whole shooting match as 4 discrete tracks. (I also use mine to "dump" 4 tracks to and from computer and a 4 track Teac A3440 o/r tape machine).

The great thing about audio is that you can plug just about any "out" into any "in" and no smoke! Might be noisy, hummy or distorted but no harm. Just keep monitor volumes at min' and advance slowly. NOT power amplifier outs! They must only ever go to speakers or specially designed devices.

Might I suggest you download the handbook from NI and read, learn and inwardly digest?

*Sorry for the "tekky numbers" (means WAY quieter than Dolby B cassette!) but you HAVE to learn this stuff you know!

Dave.
 
Have you had any experience with the Tascam US-600? The two extra XLR ports may come in handy without having to buy a mixer. I swear this will be one of the last questions! :listeningmusic:
 
fastshadow said:
Have you had any experience with the Tascam US-600? The two extra XLR ports may come in handy without having to buy a mixer. I swear this will be one of the last questions! :listeningmusic:
Click to expand...

I have no problem with Tascam gear, I had a 144 mk1 for a while.'Twas , err, ok! But the Ka6 is superior in almost every respect.
The 600 has but two analogue outs, unbalanced on (ugh!) RCAs. The Ka6 has 4 balanced outs on TRS*.
The 600 is still only 4in analogue as it the Ka6.
I very much doubt that at the (admittedly very attractive!) price, the Tascam's pre amps and converters are as good as NIs (the 144 I had had VERY low gain pres).

If I have missed something vital I am ready to be castigated!

*This allows, in the future the connection of an external hardware effects unit. Compessor, reverb...If my computer and Cubase knowledge ever get good enough I want to route my Ka6 to and from the O/R tape machine so Son can use the machine as a "plugin" effect. CAN be done! But as yet I don't have a bloody clue how!

Do not worry about the questions. You WILL be told when you are hissing people off!

Dave.
 
Haha thanks about the questions,

The KA6 only has 2 XLR/Line in. If I read your post correctly you can also use the 3/4 Line In for Instruments. This would be 4 analogue inputs but only 2 can be used for microphones.
The Tascam has 4 XLR/Line in.

Now if I bought a mixer like

Yamaha MG10/2

and use all the inputs on that would the preamps on the KA6 work with the mixer? ( So if I connected 4 mics through the mixer they would all have gone through the pre amp of the KA6 ).
 
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