Dark Hollow Ground

[robgreen]

Okay, it's late here and I finished this off on headphones, so apologies in advance if anything juts out particularly but I'd love some ears on this tune. The last original song I posted was really useful in terms of feedback and I think I heard my stuff in a new light. I've tried to implement some of that learning and do a few things differently, so I'm hoping it reflects a marked improvement in mix quality.

I also set myself the unusual challenge of writing a song with a chorus - experimental eh?

It's a pretty simple melody, but hopefully not without some merit. Any comments on mix/song/arrangement much appreciated. Ta


Dark Hollow Ground - 320kbps mp3

 

[DrumRookie]

Sounds nice

But something I noticed is that the vocals seem a bit muffled. Not sure if that was intentional though. The organ is a nice touch.

 

[robgreen]

Sounds nice

But something I noticed is that the vocals seem a bit muffled. Not sure if that was intentional though. The organ is a nice touch.

Thanks a lot for the listen and comments DrumRookie. I had a feeling that I might have done that - I thought I had the vocals mixed okay, but when I put the headphones on to finish off the mix, they sounded really harsh. I think I ended up overcompensating in cutting harsh frequencies.

I've given the mix a quick tweak and uploaded to the same link above. Hopefully it's de-muffled the vocals a little. I'm starting to lose perspective on this now though...

Cheers mate

 

[Greg_L]

I think this is really good. Good song. I think the whole mix lacks a little "air" and shimmer in the way highs, but on the flip-side I like the semi darkness to it. I like the organ and how the music plays the song out. That part was great. Nothing stood out as bad or out of place to me. Levels all seem good. Add a little shimmer back in, or don't, it's cool as is. Well done.

 

[moresound]

The link went to a dead end for me, Rob.
Are you working on the mix right now?

 

[Elton123]

This is great. I love the "lo-fi" kinda vibe. But agree a little top end would be nice. Just a wonderful lazy flow to this tune. I'd spread those guitars out a little more maybe. I keep wanting to hear them out wider.

 

[moresound]

Must be on my end if Elton was able to get there.

 

[robgreen]

I think this is really good. Good song. I think the whole mix lacks a little "air" and shimmer in the way highs, but on the flip-side I like the semi darkness to it. I like the organ and how the music plays the song out. That part was great. Nothing stood out as bad or out of place to me. Levels all seem good. Add a little shimmer back in, or don't, it's cool as is. Well done.

Ace, cheers Greg - that's great to hear. I think you're one of those to thank for making me look at my mixes from a different angle and picking up on some low end mud last time around. Looks like it's doing some good.

The organ line in the chorus originated as a backing vocal, but I couldn't get anything I thought worked, so I played it on the organ and liked the result. The part at the end came later. Thanks man, I'll see if I can add a little shimmer without killing the mood of the mix

The link went to a dead end for me, Rob.
Are you working on the mix right now?

Hey Henry, thanks for trying to listen - how strange. I haven't touched the link for about 7 hours since just before I replied to drumrookie. I'll put a soundcloud link up later if the dropbox still doesn't work for you. I held back doing that as I usually end up revisiting the original mix based on feedback and the soundcloud link ends up either becoming outdated or taking ages to update.

This is great. I love the "lo-fi" kinda vibe. But agree a little top end would be nice. Just a wonderful lazy flow to this tune. I'd spread those guitars out a little more maybe. I keep wanting to hear them out wider.

That's great to hear, thanks Elton

One more for the top end sparkle. I think I snip the top off a lot of stuff as it sounds better to me like that in isolation, but then when it comes to mixing the lack of top end everywhere has a bit of a cumulative effect. I'll have another look at the stereo field too. Really chuffed you like it, thanks man!!

 

[fat_fleet]

I don't know, I think this sounds pretty excellent. Really good song too. All the parts lock together nicely.
I wouldn't mess with it too much. Really like the lyrics on this one robgreen, cheeuhs mite!

 

[heatmiser]

This is great Rob. I like that you finally went for a more convential structure without abandoning your sound. I'm going to have to listen some more, but I do think the mix is a little muffled or dark sounding overall. I think that's part of your sound, so do as you see fit, but I don't see a downside to brightening it up a bit.

It was funny last night as I was on xbox live playing black ops II and decided to take a break and try their new IE app. I went straight to this site and was like, "oh, a new Rob tune!", so I fired up the dropbox link (it plays instantly on xbox live) and boy was I disappointed. I was like, "wow, this is so bassy and muffled, I can't believe he can't hear that". Then I realized my son had cranked the bass 100% on the turtle beach phones for maximum explosive gaming sound. I turned the bass down half way and your mix magically became listenable.

There's good separation here and the tune is really fun. I love the organ bits and the guitars. The drums are very cool as well. Nice panning on those. How were they done? I just wish your vocal cut through a little more. I always think that though, so this may simply be how you like it.

 

[chuckduffy]

Man Rob this is really nice. I'm gonna give it a few more listens. I might go for a little more sheen/shimmer as others have mentioned, but I think that's a style thing as I have no real problem with it as is. I will say that I am dying to hear the vocal placed in some space - but that might be the verb junkie talking. A plate, or a good stereo vocal verb if you dont want more dark, or maybe just a slap. Or leave it alone, nice track

 

[chuckduffy]

I just wish your vocal cut through a little more. I always think that though, so this may simply be how you like it.

I dunno man - I think I know what you mean, but when I listen I can hear every word clearly and the level is fine. It doesn't sound 'muffled' (not that you used that word) to me.

 

[Chili]

I actually thought the vox could come down a bit... and that's ME saying that. I'm usually saying the opposite!! A song named Dark Hollow Ground shouldn't have much shimmer or verb. I think the dry and dark feel fits the song perfectly.

Dude, your lyrics are great. I don't usually pay much attention to lyrics, but yours just captures the mind with great imagery. A city of Cards fall tumbling down?? That one line is like a whole song in itself.

Great song. Great job. Nice break from the usual.

 

[chuckduffy]

Dude, your lyrics are great. I don't usually pay much attention to lyrics, but yours just captures the mind with great imagery. A city of Cards fall tumbling down?? That one line is like a whole song in itself.

Great song. Great job. Nice break from the usual.

We agree on this I've always loved the imagery in Rob's songs.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

Mix sounds pretty solid. I'd be inclined to agree with the "add more shimmer" crowd, but it's not a dealbreaker as is.

 

[kcearl]

I think the vox are a little high...the mix is a little centred and dark/muddy but I think thats more to do with spacing things out..I think a little more room will help take care of that...theres a guitar later on thats a little weak/flat sounding as well, either needs to come up or have more definition (just ask me about guitars, fucking bane of my life) but


its excellent


I was listening to a favourite album of the wife and I (we seldom have similar taste)...Badly Drawn Boys The Hour of Bewilderbeast...and your sound and skills wouldnt go a miss on it...other than a need to improve slightly on your production skills you have it all on a songwriting front imo


great job Rob

 

[robgreen]

I don't know, I think this sounds pretty excellent. Really good song too. All the parts lock together nicely.
I wouldn't mess with it too much. Really like the lyrics on this one robgreen, cheeuhs mite!

Ace, thanks for listening and for the nice comments fat fleet. I had a definite sound in my head for this and think I got pretty close, other than a little mud which I'll get cleared up and posted tomorrow hopefully. Chars dood

This is great Rob. I like that you finally went for a more convential structure without abandoning your sound. I'm going to have to listen some more, but I do think the mix is a little muffled or dark sounding overall. I think that's part of your sound, so do as you see fit, but I don't see a downside to brightening it up a bit.

It was funny last night as I was on xbox live playing black ops II and decided to take a break and try their new IE app. I went straight to this site and was like, "oh, a new Rob tune!", so I fired up the dropbox link (it plays instantly on xbox live) and boy was I disappointed. I was like, "wow, this is so bassy and muffled, I can't believe he can't hear that". Then I realized my son had cranked the bass 100% on the turtle beach phones for maximum explosive gaming sound. I turned the bass down half way and your mix magically became listenable.

There's good separation here and the tune is really fun. I love the organ bits and the guitars. The drums are very cool as well. Nice panning on those. How were they done? I just wish your vocal cut through a little more. I always think that though, so this may simply be how you like it.

Chuffed that you caught this one Pete. Your reply in the Paper Cup thread got me reminded me that this is the first song I've written which I demoed completely solo on the guitar first. I wanted to write something quite straightforward and try and make it more interesting as I recorded/mixed it. The way I approached it was to initially demo against a guide beat, added the bass line, then removed everything except the bass and drums and built it up from there. I got so enamoured with the bass line that it took me a while to accept that it could be anything other than the star of the show...anyway, I think that working this way gives the song a bit of a skeletal feel that I like.

The drums are done in Impulse, which is Ableton's built in drum machine I guess. They have a load of built in samples which generally aren't up to much cop, so I've got retro analogue drums sample library that I like a lot. They've got a little compression, tube amp and reverb on and then enough delay to give a bit of movement without being an obvious effect. The kick is on a separate track so that I could have a bit more control over it. I'm really glad you like anyway, I'll try and get the vocals to cut through a bit more on the update. Late night headphone mixes aren't the best way for me to judge subtleties!

Man Rob this is really nice. I'm gonna give it a few more listens. I might go for a little more sheen/shimmer as others have mentioned, but I think that's a style thing as I have no real problem with it as is. I will say that I am dying to hear the vocal placed in some space - but that might be the verb junkie talking. A plate, or a good stereo vocal verb if you dont want more dark, or maybe just a slap. Or leave it alone, nice track

Listening back now, I'm definitely agreeing that a side order of shimmer is the dish of the day. Thanks muchly for listening Chuck. Your reverb comments made me smile - I'm as much a reverb junkie as they come and generally love it for everything - for this one though, I had an uber-dry vocal sound in my head that I couldn't shift. There's a little verb on the first verse and choruses, but none at all on the second verse. I just wanted it to have a real up-close, intimate feel and spent a lot of time dicking around trying to find the best way to do that. Still needs a little work

Thanks man, hope you've got something new in the pipeline soon.

 

[robgreen]

I actually thought the vox could come down a bit... and that's ME saying that. I'm usually saying the opposite!! A song named Dark Hollow Ground shouldn't have much shimmer or verb. I think the dry and dark feel fits the song perfectly.

Dude, your lyrics are great. I don't usually pay much attention to lyrics, but yours just captures the mind with great imagery. A city of Cards fall tumbling down?? That one line is like a whole song in itself.

Great song. Great job. Nice break from the usual.

I'm in full agreement with you on the vocals Chili - I should have been a little more patient and waited until I could at least hear it on the speakers after finishing mixing it with headphones. I think it's that the vocals are dominating all the lower/mid frequencies as much as anything. I've done a little more work on it tonight and think I've got a happier balance and air to the mix...on headphones again though. Will wait until tomorrow to crank it up first before posting up this time...

Thanks for your kind words on the lyrics too - I don't really write love or heartbreak songs and I want to get something down that's a bit more than pretty gibberish, so it's great to hear that the imagery works. The song is about driving to Las Vegas and being completely overwhelmed both by the games in the casinos that I just couldn't get my head around and the brashness of this crazy city. It was kind of fun to see, but the whole experience was so far out of my comfort zone

We agree on this I've always loved the imagery in Rob's songs.

Aw, shucks Chuck

Mix sounds pretty solid. I'd be inclined to agree with the "add more shimmer" crowd, but it's not a dealbreaker as is.

Cool, thanks Steve -more shimmer definitely coming up. Thanks for listening in

I think the vox are a little high...the mix is a little centred and dark/muddy but I think thats more to do with spacing things out..I think a little more room will help take care of that...theres a guitar later on thats a little weak/flat sounding as well, either needs to come up or have more definition (just ask me about guitars, fucking bane of my life) but


its excellent


I was listening to a favourite album of the wife and I (we seldom have similar taste)...Badly Drawn Boys The Hour of Bewilderbeast...and your sound and skills wouldnt go a miss on it...other than a need to improve slightly on your production skills you have it all on a songwriting front imo


great job Rob

You're spot on kc - hopefully the updated mix will sort out the vocals and all round dynamics. I really went for texture on this and it's a bit of a shame listening back that the vocal clogs the mix up to some degree. I'm dying to replace with the new mix now, but as I can't crank it yet I won't. "Fool me once headphones, shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again" as yer man dubya would probably have said...

The guitar that you mention - is it the lead 'solo' line in the instrumental section at the end or the fuzzier one playing the riff lower down in the mix? I added a layer of electric guitar playing the bass riff that I thought might give the bass line more definition if I placed it subtly in the mix. I'll go back and look.

Thanks for your compliments on the song too man, it means a lot - I do hear when you make the BDB link and that is a fantastic album. Bit of a shame he lost his way a little after that record - for some reason he ditched the colours/textures/quirks of his earlier stuff and it all went a little bit anaemic. I've seen him out round Manchester a few times, he is can be one grumpy bastard

Cheers Keith!

 

[heatmiser]

I dunno man - I think I know what you mean, but when I listen I can hear every word clearly and the level is fine. It doesn't sound 'muffled' (not that you used that word) to me.

Yeah, you're right that all can be clearly heard. I don't think I explained it well. I didn't mean in terms of volume either as if anything, I think they might be a bit loud. I guess I meant that they could just have more of an edge to them and be a little less warm and rich in low mids. I was thinking that some lower EQ cuts would lighten them up a bit and make them "cut" (?) through better...I just don't often have the right terminology. But yeah, I guess I do kinda think they sound a little muffled.

Chuffed that you caught this one Pete.

Wouldn't miss it! Looking forward to a lighter, totally freakin' shimmering remix .

 

[chuckduffy]

try new shimmer sheen!