Tube Preamps or solid state

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cazby

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I have a presonus 1818VSL and a Mackie Onyx Blackbird. I am considering purchasing a Studio Projects VTB1 preamp to add to this setup.

My main concern is, will this relatively cheap tube preamp be any better than my onboard presonus or onyx preamps?
 
The reason being is because I would imagine the hardware is a starved plate design, meaning the tube does not get used.
 
Cheers, but please excuse my 'non-savvy-ness', why wouldn't the tube be used?

Do you mean the VTB1 is just a tube modelling unit?
 
Because there is usually only one tube used with cheap op amp circuits and low voltage. This results in a starved plate design. The tube isn't being used really.


It's just a marketing scam in my opinion. Did you (somewhat) have the idea that if you bought this tube design it would make your sound more pleasing? I think you had to have it or else you wouldn't be asking the question.
 
Read this and the link to the manual:

PAiA: How tubes Work by John Simonton

Technically the tube is "used" but it is not being used for amplification, it's being used outside it's normal operating range to add distortion. (With a plate voltage around 30-40v instead of the 90-200 or so it is designed for. ) It is cheap and easy to turn 12v dc into 40vdc with a few capacitors it takes a higher voltage transformer and other high voltage components to turn 120vac into 200vdc which adds cost and weight.

In these "starved plate" units the amplification is all solid state. The tube is added generally after the amplification stage, with no gain to add distortion. There *is* a real effect, but it can be extremely subtle. It's a gimmick, as I've said before it's a useful gimmick, but don't be deceived that you're buying a tube amplifier.

GS was down so I couldn't follow the link. However, check out my 6N3 buffer thread. With some mods, you can get a tube preamp fairly cheap.
 
Yeah, was basically just wondering if I bought it, would it sound better than what I already had?

Also, that link to GS didn't seem to work...
 
Thanks. Understand now.

So, what, if any, is a reasonable tube pre under $500?
 
I've got some respect for the VTB-1 and have considered buying it. Quite a while back, I heard a shootout between the VTB-1 and an Avalon something... and there wasn't much difference. The VTB-1 was a little more grainy, maybe because of the tube design as Blue Jinn described it. But overall, it sounded great. Way better than the stock preamps in your typical consumer level interface. For the money, you might consider it. If you don't like it, sell it.

my $0.02 worth.
 
I have 2 VTB-1 pres (not my only pres) and they are very good for the price, I don't use them trying to get the warm tube sound, I use them because they actually sound good. Review here. As a preamp they cannot be beaten for the price.

Alan.

Opps forgot the original question: Will they sound better? maybe, maybe not, but they will sound different and verity is the spice of life.
 
cazby said:
So, what, if any, is a reasonable tube pre under $500?
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Keep in mind that literally every single preamp known for "warmth and character" are solid state units. With few exceptions, the entire industry ran from tubes as fast as possible for a variety of reasons.

I'm not knocking tubes here -- There is some great tube gear out there. But "that tube sound" generally has absolutely nothing to do with tubes** -- It has to do with transformers.

$500 on a preamp? Grace m101, True P-Solo, FMR's RNP (dual channel). Those are probably the only three I'd be looking at in that price range. And none of them have tubes (thank Gawd). Ah -- I forgot the GAP Pre73 - Especially with the upgraded transformer option.

** The exception of course would be many guitar amplifiers where the tubes are a vital and significant part of the sound and signal path.
 
Massive Master said:
Keep in mind that literally every single preamp known for "warmth and character" are solid state units. With few exceptions, the entire industry ran from tubes as fast as possible for a variety of reasons.

I'm not knocking tubes here -- There is some great tube gear out there. But "that tube sound" generally has absolutely nothing to do with tubes** -- It has to do with transformers.

$500 on a preamp? Grace m101, True P-Solo, FMR's RNP (dual channel). Those are probably the only three I'd be looking at in that price range. And none of them have tubes (thank Gawd). Ah -- I forgot the GAP Pre73 - Especially with the upgraded transformer option.

** The exception of course would be many guitar amplifiers where the tubes are a vital and significant part of the sound and signal path.
Click to expand...

Not a fan of the Focusrite?
 
Massive Master said:
-- It has to do with transformers.



** The exception of course would be many guitar amplifiers where the tubes are a vital and significant part of the sound and signal path.
Click to expand...

An excellent point, and I had thought of mentioning that as well: that there is generally a step up transformer before the first tube stage.

Just an aside, I have a Teac 5 and a Tascam M-520. The Teac 5's pres are of course opamp, but transformer coupled, and they do sound different than the 520's.

Sorry, I guess I took this a bit off topic. For OP, I don't have a recommendation, as I'll use the on board pres and have been ***slowly*** (so much gear so little time...) building a few others. (Tube and transistor)
 
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I often read of this kneejerk reaction to "starved plate" valve operation but there is actually nothing intrinsically wrong with the techniquie.

The very famous Mullard 3-3 amplifier ran the EF86 anode at a mere 20 volts and there was a range of hybrid car radios that used just 12 volts for the RF stages (indeed these were very reliable valves, twas the grotty Geranium sstate ***t that burned out!) .

But of course it is costly to make high voltage equipment, even if you derive 300V or so from a wall rat's 12 or 24 VDC so I suppose I have to understand why folks equate Cheap, starved plate pre amp with crap performance but it does not HAVE to follow? I am not aware of a device that uses a valve and well designed sstate circuit all powered from a 30V (say) supply but I have no reason to doubt that it could be very good indeed (Oh! Where is the time for 'speriments!).

But someone (Massive?) mentioned transformers?
Why is it that no one on these forums has ever shifted A and put a traff in a tin and tried it on the front/back end (or both) of an existing pre amp/AI?..YES! You would need a modicum of DIY skills but that is something that many noobs sadly lack and a subject I get hissed about! The guys at Abbey Road/RCA/BBC were not called ENGINEERS for nothing you know!

Dave.
 
No one is saying these pre's are crap necessarily per se. At least I'm not.


We're just saying the tube isn't used as much.
 
CrowsofFritz said:
No one is saying these pre's are crap necessarily per se. At least I'm not.


We're just saying the tube isn't used as much.
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Not sure what you mean by "as much". Is the valve in the full signal path, in parallel with it or in a "wet/dry" loop? Anyone got a schematic?

Dave.
 
Speaking of tube VS ss....
I really like my Sebatron VPM-4000e preamp, which has a high voltage tube input stage, and all signal gain is done via the tube, but then it uses a solid state output stage.
Very sweet preamp and nice design overall with some great bonus options AFA some EQ switches....I have nothing bad to say about it.

Though it's not in the sub-$500 range...but I guess you could say it's about $500/channel. :)
 
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