WAV files sound good in some programs, crappy in others

[Farview]

I was mainly referring to the way he was using it. (recording a vocal in one program, normalizing it, and transferring it to another program) But, the reality is, there is a very limited usefulness for setting the peak level of a file. In a mix situation, the peak level of any individual track is irrelevant.

Since there is such a limited usefulness for normalizing, most of the time someone (especially someone who is obviously new) is normalizing, they are generally using it for the wrong purpose and doing nothing but screwing up their gain structure...then they are confused as to why things sound bad.

No, normalizing a file does not compromise the audio in that file. But it does mess up the gain structure of a mix, which leads to all sorts of goofyness that a newb would have a hard time working around. (and could easily create distortion, like the op was describing)

 

[GuitarLegend]

I was mainly referring to the way he was using it. (recording a vocal in one program, normalizing it, and transferring it to another program) But, the reality is, there is a very limited usefulness for setting the peak level of a file. In a mix situation, the peak level of any individual track is irrelevant.

Since there is such a limited usefulness for normalizing, most of the time someone, especially someone who is obviously new,is normalizing, they are generally using it for the wrong purpose and doing nothing but screwing up their gain structure...then they are confused as to why things sound bad.

No, normalizing a file does not compromise the audio in that file. But it does mess up the gain structure of a mix, which leads to all sorts of goofyness that a new would have a hard time working around. (and could easily create distortion, like the op was describing)

Ok, defs agree with that. Sounded at first like an aversion to normalizing in general but I see where you're coming from

 

[Mickmeister]

But, the reality is, there is a very limited usefulness for setting the peak level of a file. In a mix situation, the peak level of any individual track is irrelevant.

Based on my previous audio experience (a little with sound efx & music editing and none with mixing), I always thought it was a given that you want your volume levels as loud as possible without clipping. I was also led to that conclusion by an online tutorial that's now starting to look a little fishy to me. So at this point I'm starting to think you don't need loud levels in a mix situation since the waveforms are all adding to each other's volume anyway...is that what you're getting at, Farview?

 

[RAMI]

Based on my previous audio experience (a little with sound efx & music editing and none with mixing), I always thought it was a given that you want your volume levels as loud as possible without clipping. I was also led to that conclusion by an online tutorial that's now starting to look a little fishy to me. So at this point I'm starting to think you don't need loud levels in a mix situation since the waveforms are all adding to each other's volume anyway...is that what you're getting at, Farview?

I think what he's saying is simply there are very very very few circumstances where anyone needs to normalize.

As far as "levels as loud as possible without clipping", that doesn't apply to digital recording. With digital recording, you want as much headroom as possible. In analog recording, you want the levels up because the noise floor of tape is higher, and also there is a desireable result that comes from slightly disttorting and getting natural tape compression. In digital, anything over 0db is a very un-pleasant distortion.

 

[Farview]

Based on my previous audio experience (a little with sound efx & music editing and none with mixing), I always thought it was a given that you want your volume levels as loud as possible without clipping. I was also led to that conclusion by an online tutorial that's now starting to look a little fishy to me. So at this point I'm starting to think you don't need loud levels in a mix situation since the waveforms are all adding to each other's volume anyway...is that what you're getting at, Farview?

Based on my previous audio experience (a little with sound efx & music editing and none with mixing), I always thought it was a given that you want your volume levels as loud as possible without clipping. I was also led to that conclusion by an online tutorial that's now starting to look a little fishy to me. So at this point I'm starting to think you don't need loud levels in a mix situation since the waveforms are all adding to each other's volume anyway...is that what you're getting at, Farview?

Yup. Plus, the "record as loud as you can without clipping" is old, outdated advice from when converters were struggling to get 16 bits of resolution and converters were calibrated so that line level was -9dbFS.

 

[GuitarLegend]

I just performed a test on some audio data in Sonar X1. I took a spoken phrase and imported it into two separate tracks in mono.The waveforms peaked at -6dB. Inverting the phase on one track of course resulted in no audio output. Restored the phase on that track and reduced its gain by 42dB. The wave had almost flatlined. I saved this waveform as a 32-bit wave with no dithering. Cleared that track and re-imported the wave then applied 42dB of gain. The resulting waveforms were identical bar one or two very tiny differences in some steps in the waveform. The two tracks were for all intents and purposes, equal. I was pretty amazed at that. I expected at least some loss for whatever reason but it seems to prove a point about digital recording. Allowing plenty of headroom doesn't appear to result in any loss of fidelity. I'm stoked

 

[mixsit]

I ... I'm stoked

We should be. We're given fantastic tools- dirt cheap in the scheme of things.
Limitations? Yeah, pilot and nav' error..

 

[Farview]

If you record something that peaks at -48dbfs, you essentially have a 16 bit recording...cd quality.

Now, of course, doing that Will probably give you a bad signal to noise ratio because of thenoise floor of the analog equipment feeding the converters. But obviously this means that recording with peaks at -12dbfs (for example) Will not be a problem of any kind.

 

[GuitarLegend]

The experiment has just been a mind-altering revelation and a sense of a breath of fresh air. I always tried to get the highest amplitude signal into the recorded track, not only for the SN ratio but so that I had a quality waveform to work with. As long as the noise is low, this appears to free me up to use possibly lower levels than I have often painstakingly tried to get. Not that I won't continue to do that if only for the SN issues but it did reveal capabilities of digital audio that I wasn't fully aware of.